SPEAKER_04 0:07

Welcome to We Out here with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast for the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. Join us for conversations about our Catholic faith, and together let's strive to live a life of faith, hope, and love. I'm Jay Agnis, Communications Director for the Diocese. With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney. Bishop Kevin, how are you? Good Jay, yourself. Doing well.

unknown 0:27

Mr.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Joe, we're also with Joe Geely, our eighth freelance photographer for the Beacons. And today we're going to introduce a special segment, a new segment that we're starting on the Beyond the Beacon podcast. It's called The Good News Workshop. And this is a uh special edition that we're going to drop from time to time, featuring interviews with different experts in different areas of communication so that we can be inspired and educated by them in our quest to share the good news with within our parishes, our schools, and around the diocese and our different uh departments. But before we begin that segment, um we're gonna see what's going on with the bishop. So, Bishop, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Good, thank you. St. Joseph's help, yeah. Thank them wonderful here in Patterson, uh founded many years ago, I think 150 or more than 100 years ago by the Sisters of Charity and uh blessing here in our city of Patterson, caring for the underserved communities and giving uh care, health care, um, both here and in their campus at Wayne. Uh so we just celebrated here in their beautiful chapel, a mass to begin Hispanic Heritage Month, which I was very happy to do. And uh uh and there's a great community sister Pat Menor, um uh sister of charity works here in the hospital with the CEO Dustin Riccio and uh the whole staff. They're just uh one and many of our priests, we have three of our priests serving here as priest chaplains as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Okay, yeah, it was a beautiful mass. It's really nice to be a part of it. And uh so what else is is going on? So it's Hispanic heritage.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I'm heading for Mexico tomorrow. Yes, tomorrow. No, tomorrow, yeah, no, tomorrow, Thursday, I'll be actually be at an immigration conference in Philadelphia, Villanova University. So I'm looking forward to that. And then on Friday, um the 18th, uh head to Mexico uh to visit the shrine at Guadalupe and the um um world villages for children, uh children, uh girls, um, girls town uh in Chalco, where I've been before, and the Sisters of Mary, founded by Venerable Aloysha Swartz. Kevin Wells was on the podcast a few months ago to talk about that trip, and thank God we have 80 people that are gonna be going on this trip. Yeah, yeah. So it'll be quick Friday to Monday, but seeing Guadalupe and seeing the sisters and the um uh the girls' town will be a great blessing.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Yeah, and we want to hear about it. I hope you take some photos while you're there. We'll talk more about that. But uh so uh can we can we open up and pray?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Sure. We place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Holy Father, um, through the Archbishop of Mexico just announced that it'll be a Jubilee year of um Our Lady of Guadalupe, um, marking the 50th anniversary of the founding of the new basilica at Guadalupe uh in 1976. So we'll have more information of that. But as we look to our blessed mother always to guide us in prayer, and as we enter into Hispanic Heritage Month, we look to her as our Lady of Guadalupe, patroness of the Americas, and we ask her help in intercession as we pray. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

All right, so as we go to introduce to our new segment, I want to ask you a couple questions first about so our topic for the Good News Workshop. The first one is on photography. So I went up to Joe's house and we sat down and we had a fantastic interview in his home office where we looked at some of his photos and kind of got inside the inner workings of his perspective on taking photos. He also shared some awesome tips to help us all become better photographers. And um, so maybe Bishop, um, I mean, you are probably the most photographed person that I know personally. And uh even right here after this mass, you had a group photo taken. What's that like to be the, I guess, the center of attention or have your photo taken so often?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

So, not my favorite thing to do in the sense of being photographed, but being with people and celebrating happy moments. When I was a parish priest in Brooklyn, um serving in an immigrant community, uh, it hit me at one point that when parents and families were taking pictures of children just baptized, the first communion of confirmation, many of them were sending those pictures back to their parents, grandparents in Mexico, Dominican Republic, and other countries. Uh, and some of those parents hadn't seen their own parents for 20 plus years. Those grandparents, because there wasn't an ability to travel, never got to know there. But for the parents to say, look, my child was just baptized, or my child, your grandchild just received first holy communion or confirmation, I realized that those um pictures are so important. And thinking of my own, my own parents probably didn't have, couldn't email pictures or text pictures, but uh I'm sure they sent some photos back to Ireland. Uh, and so um um those photos uh become very, very important. Uh so uh to take the time to take the picture, I'll be willing to do it, even though it wouldn't be my first thing I would choose to do.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

You've also been behind the camera on your different pilgrimages, and we appreciate seeing your photos come in through WhatsApp and through our texts, and then Cecile and you know myself, we put them on the beacon and social media, so thank you for those.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I'm not a photographer like Joe, but uh we do each other.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

So um, yeah, why don't we uh so Joe's here. So uh Joe had shared with us um the early days of when you first got to know each other. I know you needed your your portrait taken when you became uh when you were about to become installed as a bishop. We also talked about some of the in our minds, kind of the famous photos that you have taken with some of the children after your installation when you were kind of elbow bumping them during COVID. But uh yeah, uh so here I'm gonna hand the mic over to Joe.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

So maybe we can hear your your side about the story of how you first came to meet Joe.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Father Stephen, right? And uh was Father Stephen Prisk was Bishop Sarratelli's uh uh master of ceremonies and living in the house where I live now and uh arranged uh because a picture had to be taken.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

That was the portrait photo shoot. Right, right. And how long have you been working in the diocese? The diocese, probably about 26 or 27 years.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Um we talk about the power of an image um and a photo at a happy moment and some of the sadder or more difficult moments. Um we see a lot of that in like yesterday was Our Lady of Sorrows and uh and and the day before the triumph of the cross. You were, I think your dad had a famous picture. We just had September 11th last Friday.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Well, dad was the editor uh at the record at the time during September 11th. Uh he was photo editor. So uh yeah, the Tom Franklin photo.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Uh I remember Pop was that of the freaking out of the firefighters uh raising the flag.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yes, that was the uh firefighters. I think it went on to become stamps, t-shirts, and everything else. Tom, uh wonderful photographer at the right moment, and dad being a great editor, noticed the shot right away and he said, Hey, this needs to be iconic, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

It's not just a word, it's uh it's a reality sometimes. Yeah, became famous. So um um, so yeah, uh my my aunt Nora happened to be visiting um that first one of my first days in the house was before I was ordained, and it just so happened that the um the cassocks arrived, I think, in the mail that that day. That day, I didn't agree telling you that. And uh and she was all excited to uh see me put on the the the cassock uh uh for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

And but then uh I remember um sitting in a chair and having that on, and you've given me some directions as to Yeah, we did, and we we had to get past the masks because we needed the portrait without the masks, right? Right. Uh but yeah, no, that was uh the first time we met with wonderful portrait session.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

And you would go back to even Bishop Rodimer's time.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Were you working for God's own? Yes, yes. I started uh before he ended his uh as bishop.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Uh and I remember um being here at St. Joe's um a picture of Bishop Saratelli uh blessing the hospital with the Eucharist and I think with holy water uh during COVID, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yes, yes. Uh that was done uh I believe right out front here in Patterson when we were finally able to have a mass here uh again, or at least a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Um you do some work um uh for the hospital as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

I do do a lot of work for the hospital itself, so um I get around.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Right, right, right. Uh and uh like so many hospitals, um, especially in those days of the pandemic, that we really saw those uh doctors and nurses and first responders as the heroes that they are, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Um being there experiencing it firsthand, I mean I can't describe what I was seeing because it was uh pretty unreal on what you're looking at uh day after day. But uh looking at the way the employees uh at this hospital from doctors, nurses, uh the the kitchen staffs, uh the everybody that takes part in keeping this hospital running.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

I got to see all them working and everybody working at their finest uh and whether it be your pictures or some others at that time, you know, a photo of someone showing real concern and compassion, maybe worry, um uh gratitude or relief. Uh it's amazing how a picture can really uh it's worth a thousand words, right? It is worth a thousand words. So that means I guess I talk a lot.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

All right, well, thanks, Joe. Thanks, Bishop. And at this time we're gonna go to that segment, that the good news workshop segment, the interview with Joe Geely.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Enjoy it. Well done. Thank you guys. Great job.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

We'll be sharing the good news. God bless you.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Here we are at Joe Geoley's home office studio. It's a little bit of everything, Jay. Yeah, and this is our first segment of the Good News Workshop, which is uh a new segment we're introducing to the Beyond the Beacon podcast that's intended to help us all become the best storytellers and communicators that we can be to spread the good news of the the life-saving good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Okay. It works. Yeah. So we want to learn from you, Joe, get to know you a little bit, and uh maybe come away with some some practical uh tips about photography. And uh so why don't we start with um so uh uh you've been uh longtime photographer with with the beacon and the diocese of Patterson. Um I mean you're basically about 26 years, I think. Yeah, just a little while. Um so you're yeah, synonymous with um the Beacon and and um you can see Joe's work at beaconnj.org. And if you're watching this episode on video, we have it flashing over our shoulders here as well. Uh a nice collection of photos that is not necessarily uh church or something.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

No, it's a little bit of my my playwork, it's a little bit of my work work, uh stuff that I just you know makes me happy at the time that I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Nice. So the another side of Joe's beautiful creative work, and uh it's been a pleasure working with you, Joe, for the past, I guess, few years now. And uh I was uh somewhat familiar with your work before I started working for the Diocese, but you uh your reputation certainly precedes you. Good or bad. And it's it's good, Joe. And of course your dad being uh long time editor with um with the uh with recording.com. Yeah, I I actually, you know, which a company I worked for for for 15 years, we actually didn't I didn't really uh cross paths with him. I mean I was in the weekly division and he was more in the daily division. But when did he retire?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Oh geez. Uh I'm gonna say about at least 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Okay, so yeah, maybe we didn't okay. But anyway, we're here to talk about you. And uh so tell us a little bit about um your background. So um how did you get into photography?

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Well, that's a good question. How far back do we I've been doing it since I could crawl. Yeah. Uh no, I I guess since I was about four years old, I was always helping dad in the dark room, which we had in the basement, and that's how you know he made extra money keeping keeping things going, was always doing commercial work besides working for the Patterson News. So I grew up alongside him. I wanted to be with Pop, to spend time with Pop. I had to work with Pop. So I took to photography um as not only a uh something to do with him, but I was like, wow, this is a dream, this is a pleasure, this is something I could do my whole life. So yeah, three, four years old working in the dark room, helping him take pictures off the uh the old uh dryer drums and stuff like that, burning fingers and so using film. Using definitely using film back then. That that had to be like early 1970s.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

And you was it color back then? Or was it black and white?

SPEAKER_02 14:25

We we specialized, uh everything was really black and white back then. Uh color didn't really come along mainstream until uh my guess is the uh the late 80s, you know, at least in our newspaper uh world. Uh you know, we didn't go color at the Star Ledger until I think the early nineties. Okay. It was either the late eighties or early nineties.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

So were you saying at the Star Ledger? So Ned, did you work at the Star Ledger?

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yes. Uh backtrack a little bit from growing up. Um my first job was at the Patterson News in 1984. Okay. Uh 18 years old, gave up my first uh uh quit the first semester of college because I realized it wasn't for me, and I had a job opportunity to work for the Patterson News, which was uh the daily newspaper in Patterson at the time. Okay um so I was like, well, finish college and maybe get a job or fast track and get my dream job now. Um I always had the ability for for photography, learning from dad and all his co-workers, they were all like my teachers their whole life. You know?

SPEAKER_04 15:28

All the photographers You really learned by doing.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

I I learned by doing, by watching.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Like did you ever take a photo class in college or anything? No.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Uh no. Okay. Uh we didn't. I I took automechanics in high school and I was pretty good at fixing cars. So uh this that that maybe related in a way, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Photography can be very technical.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You know what it is related in a way because you it my way of thinking, anyway, is you have to step through things in steps. And you think through step one and it helps step two, step two helps step three. So it it it gives you a very progressive way of thinking things out. So I do that with my photography all the time. Like, what if this happens? I gotta be prepared for this. Um, but that was the first job at the Patterson News. We were brought up by the Hurl News, uh, and then from there, I think it was 1986 when I went to New Jersey News Photos, and we were the uh photo department for the Star Ledger. Oh so they didn't have their own real photo staff. Uh they used our outside company.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

So how many photographers in total about when I left in 2000?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Uh we had probably 40 photographers, we had probably at least a dozen uh technicians that went from uh you know awesome darkroom technicians to uh digital technicians because uh they did the crossover. We even had a library uh in-house uh for our all the morgue photos.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

It was like uh for like police departments? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Uh the we we referred to the morgue as the place where we put our dead photos and old negatives, so everything was saved.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

So there was, you know, dozens of years of uh photos and negatives just kept in there and we were really you you mentioned the trans you mentioned I guess analog essentially and film and digital, and now you've not only lived through a period, the transition between film to digital camera, but also the advent of the internet and the advent of social media. Yes, so um a lot of interesting things that much has happened in our lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

It has, and most of it for the good. Uh you know, you need it to uh depending on how you embrace technology, it could be good, it could be bad.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

So our our audience that's that's watching, um, my guess is would primarily be using taking photos with their phones.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Correct. Excuse me. Took over uh cameras, but uh it does the same job. You still got to think about it the same way.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Okay, well maybe you could get into that. So like so my guess is taking a f a great photo still involves the same approach, whether you whatever gear you're using. So what goes behind for you, what what goes into your thought process when you think about taking a approaching how to take a great photo?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Depends what I'm looking at or what I'm trying to do. It depends who the client is. Uh wow. There's a lot to it that I never really stopped to think about before because I just I guess I kind of flow through the phone. All right, well, how about this?

SPEAKER_04 18:30

We'll give you a second to let that percolate. Yeah. And maybe tell us a little. I kind of skipped over the so how did you get from news photography to working for the beacon and freelance?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

That's a good question. Um I took my buyout from the uh from news photos to Star Ledger uh January 1, 2000. And my plan was to go on my own. I started my own online uh news company. I mean, the internet was young in year 2000. So if you could picture uh the time frame, uh most people didn't know what the internet was.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah, that's right around when I remember first 1999, 2000, 2001.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

My publication was NJ Counties Online, and the first part of that was NJ Morris County Online, where we went around photographing and doing short stories on good news that was happening throughout Morris County. My plan was to grow it bigger, uh, but I'm not a salesman, I'm a photographer. Okay. You know, that didn't quite work the way that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

A darn good one.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

But it made a lot of good contacts. Um there was one year, I think it was 2001, and since I was covering events happening in Morris County, uh we had Bishop Rodimer's anniversary mass, and I wanted to photograph that for my publication. Um, because Morris County being a part of the Patterson Diocese, I was like, this would be good for uh for our publication being the website? Yeah, it was an on it was an online news magazine that we we would refer to it now, but uh we didn't know how to refer to it back then because nobody else was uh was doing it. Uh newspapers weren't even doing it yet. Uh so I kind of was ahead of the time.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Uh but behind the curve when it came to uh marketing it. Because you didn't know how to market it. All I know is that we had readers. Yeah. Um we were viewing, oh, it's what time is it? Yeah, what time is it? It must be noontime. Yeah you you might need a second here.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Well, I just love being in your in your space. Thank you for welcoming and oh you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

I mean, this is a bit of me. I mean, yeah, people say, oh Joe, the clocks are going. I'm like, what clocks? They're going all day long. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

I love the uh what's off-screen are a bunch of cameras hanging uh but near your window, and and uh I did take some photos, so maybe I could slip them in his b-roll.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

But uh Yeah, no, I'm a big collector of uh camera equipment too. If it shoots pictures, I want to try it. You know, see if it's worth it or not. But uh before we got distracted by the uh the clocks, we were talking about um doing the publication. Right. So I approached uh Rich Shakerka, who was before you, and I let him know uh, you know, that I was interested in photographing this mass for our publication, and the diocese was wonderful. They're like, oh, that's a great idea. We'd love to have you at the cathedral. And this took place uh I forget the month, but it I believe it was 2001.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

And um I needed we we photographed the mass, everything was beautiful. Uh I ran the pictures on our website, we had a good following. Um, but before I did that, I wanted to check with uh Rich and uh the beacon to find out correct captions to make sure I was doing the church right. Sure. By not saying, oh, this is this and this is that. I had no idea what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Um being a lifelong Catholic and going to church is one thing. Uh when you gotta start writing about it, it's like okay, I gotta pay attention now to what I'm doing, or oh, I need to photograph this in such a way where it won't give the wrong meaning. Um so they were they were very happy with the photos that I did, and that's how it came to be working with the beacon. Uh Rich, you know, after seeing it, came up to me, and I guess the bishop as well, and they were like, Joe, could you do this for our publication? I'm like, sure, why not? You know, I'm independent now, I don't work for the Star Ledger. Anymore. I could do this for whoever you know whoever needs this. And that's how it started with the diocese from that one mass that I wound up photographing.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Do you remember the did you say what type of mass it was?

SPEAKER_02 22:39

It was an anniversary mass for Bishop Rodimer. And I would like to say it was his 25th anniversary as bishop.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

So speaking of bishops, you um so all right, so fast forward, so you've been since then you've been, so you said 28 years since uh 20, 26, 27 years of the diocese, yeah. Great. And um so yeah, still still plugging away, and you've you've also kind of branched out, and you I know you do jobs for for parishes, confirmations, correct, some other ministries and departments within the diocese. And um yeah, I mean people have just I mean your your photos are are quite breathtaking and and um your talent is um is unmistakable and you uh you've won many awards over the years. Uh most recently, what was it, third place photographer of the year from the Cat Catholic Media Association. Yeah, well I you know what you should have been first, man, in my opinion, but uh but we'll get you we'll get you there. One uh one of the things.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Sometimes coming in second or third is not bad. Makes me try a little harder or keeps you know a little a little humble. We gotta stay humble, we gotta stay grounded.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Yeah. So um all right, so talk about I guess your work with with the beacon now. Um so primarily you're photographing masses involving Art Bishop, Bishop Kevin Sweeney.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

That is correct. I to back up a little bit. I mean, I don't know if you wanted to touch on uh some of that you you we left off with the film day compared to the digital.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wherever, yeah. Um that's fine, let's go there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

That was one of the things that with the beacon, they were not used to digital yet. And I was probably one of the first uh early photographers, at least an independent photographer, to leave the newspapers and come out full force digital uh back then uh in year 2000. So not many people were doing that. We lost a lot of good photographers back then because a lot of people didn't or uh want to make the the crossover to digital or they couldn't afford to make the crossover to digital. Oh, because it was expensive uh to get started back then.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Okay, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Um you look at a film camera, like say my old trusty Nikon F3, which is still shooting pictures today, you know, you you paid about a a grand or so for a camera body, it lasted you a lifetime. Whereas now our new pro bodies back then, you know, five, six grand every time you needed a new body, wow, and the technology was evolving so fast it was very difficult to uh to try to stay on top of it. So it was uh a bit of an investment um into digital. Um so that was something I was able to offer the diocese and the beacon.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Now, did you were you like so obviously you're don't doesn't sound like you're a purist, so like, oh I'm only gonna shoot on film for just my life. I hate film. You know, I mean I love film, like I hate to film so much better than photography to me is photography.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

It doesn't matter what instrument you're using to get there, okay, uh, or what brand. Uh you know, you can make it as expensive as you want, you can make it as cheap as you want, you can shoot with a cell phone and have just as much satisfaction as shooting with a you know a brand new Nikon Z9. It all depends on what you're looking to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

So we want we do want to in a little while get into some practical tips for people to help us all take better photos. Um, but before we get there, do you want to do you want to talk about a little bit about um thanks for sharing that insight about film to digital? That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

That that was a great uh that was a great leap.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

So what's it like working with Bishop Kevin?

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Bishop Kevin, wonderful. I have the blessings of working with another great bishop in the diocese of Patterson. Um to to work with three of them, you know, not many people get to say that. I get to see uh, you know, a side that's taking place um that a lot of people miss.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Um you know. Well that's that's one of the things about your photos that I love. Like your the moments that you capture there are moments that if you're just walking around, you know, if you're attending a mass, participating in a mass, and you're seeing things that uh others aren't seeing the details, the close-ups.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Yeah, close-ups, details. Um the I mean, I don't know how to word this, but the people of the diocese are our priests, our bishops. Um they've come to trust me, I I I believe, to a point where, like, you know, Joe knows what he's he's doing.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

He knows how to with the reverence and respect that I always need to have when I'm working inside the church because And the practical ability to get around a space and even the cathedral being maybe a little tricky kind of a tight.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Cathedral's uh could be very tricky. Uh I could give you a quick sidebar with the cathedral. If anybody remembers what the cathedral was like uh oh years ago, before the restoration, and it was a little darker. It um had wooden floors. And I I'm a Western cowboy kind of guy. My whole life I wore cowboy boots until I started shooting in the cathedral, and I realized every time I was walking around the cathedral, you heard with Joe walking back and forth. I'm like, this can't do. So that's why I switched up my footwear to nice black sneakers now. I was like, this is way too much.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Maybe a little easier on your feet as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Yeah, I it was the noise thing. You know, I like to stay hidden, I like to stay out of people's way. I certainly don't want to disturb not only the mass, but I don't want to disturb the people that are praying. They're there for a reason, they're there to connect with God. Uh, not to watch a photographer, you know, do his job.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Sure. And now when we were talking before we started recording, you had mentioned um it took you a little time to to uh or maybe for you and the bishop to work to work together to feel comfortable where you can possibly get a little closer to the action, I guess. Um can you talk about even for someone who's like wants to shoot an event, like you know, we all want to get close to the action. Right. But where's that balance and build that relationship to enable yourself to have that access?

SPEAKER_02 29:09

It it that's a that's a great question because it that lines up no matter what we're doing, whether or not we're photographing family members or if we're photographing uh at our own church. Um is it a trust thing? There's a trust. Uh from the photographer's standpoint, you have to be willing to go into places where you normally might feel uncomfortable, knowing that that's the better shot, but you need to do it with enough of respect and reverence to know when to back off. Uh sometimes you gotta think about is this shot worth the um the noise I might create? Is this shot worth the disturbing angle? Um, you know, I never will put myself in between the altar and the congregation unless it's an absolute necessary moment where I'm like, oh my gosh, this is happening now, and they didn't tell me about this, and now I gotta I couldn't plan first, and now you you gotta get the shot. Uh and you gotta be comfortable doing it. But with working with the bishop, uh Bishop Kevin's great. I we are so blessed to have another uh great bishop in our diocese.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

And forgive me, Bishop, if I point this out. It was fun working with somebody new at the moment. Um Bishop Kevin coming from a parish in New York uh as the pastor, it's a lot different. I'm sure when he was thrusted into a position of bishop, like, okay, and now I'm in the limelight, or you know, he's he's out there not only with the people, but but he's out there for the people, and he's talking with the people. But that had to take a little bit of uh I guess uh learning on his part and getting comfortable comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

And I want to ask him, hopefully I'll have a a chance um leading into your interview to ask him a little bit about what it's like on that side to be photographed and um yeah, what that transition was like from from being a parish priest to becoming a bishop and maybe having the camera shoved in your face a little more.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, exactly. I mean that that's one of them things. I I uh fortunate enough I did Bishop's portrait uh before he arrived. Oh I was actually in the middle of a shoot for uh the development office working on Bishop Appeal photos, my phone rings, and uh it was Father Kevin at the time, soon to be ordained Bishop Kevin. And he introduced himself to me, and I I don't know how many other people might have even have talked to him or have known him in the diocese at that moment, but that was our very early conversation. He's like, Joe, uh, I need to get a uh a portrait done. I I understand you're the guy to to reach out to. And I felt that. I was like, maybe somebody else, you know, should have done this for you and set it up, but they made him do it himself, you know.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

But it was a great yeah, it was a great opportunity for us to that speaks a lot to his relation relational uh building, relationship building as well. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

And of course it's COVID, so our first uh glances at each other are through uh through masks, and we're just looking at eyeballs, and you know, but now the photo shoot had to come, you know, where I did his portrait and we had to unmask and we had to get down to work and we had to make it work, and it it was great. I mean it was it was a warm, comfortable feeling right from the beginning working uh with Bishop Kevin. Um something that I still enjoy. Um you know if I didn't enjoy doing what I was doing or what I'm doing, I wouldn't do it. Yeah, there's so many other things in life that you could be doing. So if you enjoy photography, do photography. If you enjoy writing, do writing. I mean, find what your passion is and and and stick with it. So luckily, this is mine.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Awesome. Well, that's a good transition, Joe, into um maybe the second half of our conversation about uh maybe some some teaching moments or or um things that you can pass along to others. And I know that you you are doing that. I mean you work, you have so you currently have an intern you've worked with uh mentoring other photographers. So when you when you we have you know Jessica Alvarez, right it is uh Martinez. Martinez. Jessica Martinez.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Wonderful young uh college student over at Seton Hall Prep. Yeah. So knows the church inside and out. What a blessing.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

And so what um what are you talking about with her? What are you um teaching her? What what's your approach and uh some good questions?

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Um I I like to mentor a lot of photograp uh uh up-and-coming photographers. Um and I try to start out by first feeling out where they're at. There you you meet a lot of people that love photography. I mean, I could be at mass, and before mass I'm talking to users, or I might be talking to a parishioner. Oh Joe, I'm thinking about getting a new camera. What do you mean? And it's always tough questions because how do you answer, you know, somebody in less than a minute on what they should buy when you don't know where they're at?

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Their skill set, exactly, how committed they are.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Um yeah, so I mean that all takes a little bit uh you know of planning to figure out what people need as far as equipment or their talent level or how far they plan on uh taking uh photography.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

You know, they you know well you're not recommending a five thousand dollar body to someone who might be just looking to take some family portraits.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Start out within your budget, see if you like it, see if you enjoy it, um, and then move on from there. But uh, you know, some of the things that I like to work with uh with the young ones. I'm a camera collector, so I can't pass up a good deal when I find cameras at the right price, and I'm like, oh, I gotta have it. I play with it, I use it, and now I'm like, now what do I do with it? Yeah. So a lot of times I find uh uh young people that are into photography, and I wind up uh I wind up gifting them equipment to get them on their way. You know, sometimes it's film cameras, sometimes it's digital equipment. You're passing it on. Yeah that's amazing. Even uh even the folks uh over at the uh uh photo store, you know, I go in there, it's like, oh, here's Joe. You know, okay. I I find the young workers over there who were all into photography, I give them equipment. Uh you know, yeah, it's just something I like to share with. There was a um oh a group of I think they were altar servers over at St. Margaret's in Marstown.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

And they were doing a photo project uh in in high school, and they came up to me after one of the uh pro-life marches, and they were like, hey Joe, you know, we would really like to get into photography. What do you recommend? And the budget was a little not there. Uh so I'm like, well, let me find out what you guys are looking for. What are you looking to do? Um, I think it was a group of about five kids uh that Walter Service that approached me on this one. Yeah, and I said, Let me see what we can work out. And uh I worked with uh, well, the place I deal with with photos, I'll give them a shameless plug, unique photo over in Fairfield.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Oh, yeah, I know. Yeah, rented from there. They're awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, great place, but uh I went down there and uh since I'm always there, they're like my second home sometimes. And I told them the project uh of I wanted to get some equipment uh for a bunch of young students, uh yeah, but I can't break the bank because I'm paying for it out of my pocket, blah blah blah blah. They came up with a deal for me where they they absorb half the cost on the used equipment. I picked up the other half. Wow, and we we got complete uh camera setups for these five kids. Um you know, so it's it's pulling other people in to help out uh with the dream as well. Yeah, it sounds like so there's a photo community, it sounds like it's a little photo, it's a it's an underground hidden community. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

You're right in the middle of it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Um I met a uh a young young man at uh a church one, I think it was in Cedar Knolls, uh, and he was telling me a story about how he inherited his grandfather's uh Minolta uh camera.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

And I was like, oh really? And he wanted to shoot with it, uh, but he had no lenses. So I was like, what what model is it? And I was like, you know what, I can help you out. And I came up with a couple lenses that I had laying around the office here, and I went and I delivered him to him, and he was able to use his uh grandfather's camera again. It was an autofocus Minolta. And then I also gave him an autofocus um Minolta digital camera at the time. Wow. So I was like, here, you know, try this. This way you can play with the film and try the digital, you know. But we're we find people like that all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Do you hear back from some of these folks?

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Joe, check out my phone.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah, for a while there, uh, you know, I was hearing back from him. He texted me some copies of the photos. Yeah. Um when I'm at St. Margaret's every now and then I run into those uh those uh ultraservices and uh they're like, yeah, we just went on to the um to the uh to the youth um pilgrimage and stuff like that. And I'm like, hey, did you take your yeah, we took our cameras, it was wonderful. They got to take pictures. Uh a couple of the parents over there and their youth minister, they were like, oh my god, they got the cameras with them all the time. So it's it's nice to hear the feedback that they're that they're interested in.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

That's so cool. That's so cool. All right, Joe. So we have the laptops a little closer. We're gonna take a look at some of your well-known photos that you've taken um for us at the beacon. Um so this is tell us about this photo.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Well, this is uh day one of uh Bishop Kevin. Uh he was just ordained uh as our uh bishop, and after mass, uh he greeted a lot of the children. Um there was such a crowd that day of uh people welcoming the new bishop. Because during COVID. During COVID, absolutely. And you know what we're gonna have to do is pause that somehow for you. Oh, there we go. Oh, I think we got a tighter one there. Um and this was uh what I learned to be is Bishop Kevin being bishop himself, being Bishop Kevin. And he saw all these kids on Main Street that day in front of the cathedral after the mass. After the mass, okay. They're all cheering bishop, bishop, and he goes over to him and he started greeting every child. Um adult as well, but he was really connecting with the children. It was fist pumps, elbow bumps. I mean, because we didn't shake hands back then because it was the it was post-COVID or just just out of COVID. Actually beginning of COVID, really. Okay. You know, uh 2020.

SPEAKER_04 39:40

Yeah, it's just crazy that he was ordained during COVID. And uh yes, the the season of the time of wearing masks and I guess when we were outdoors, it was okay to take your masks off, right? As as I recall.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Although it in the early yeah Yeah, and it's yeah, you know what? It's become such a blur, I don't pay attention to that anymore. Although I gotta say, uh, because of COVID, it has made me pay attention to people's eyes more than I had uh previously. Like when doing photos, I'm always looking for eyes and expression. Eyes, you know, it's the doorway to the soul. Um and a lot of people are getting would be offended, like, oh, I gotta wear the mask. And I'm like, you know what? I can see you smiling with your eyes, or I could see you unhappy with your eyes. And you know, the eyes, the eyes tell a story. So it was a good learning point as a photographer to say this is where we really need to be concentrating, you know. Okay. Um it was helpful.

SPEAKER_04 40:38

Yeah, these photos are great. I'm gonna have to ask Bishop Kevin about so one of these is is hanging up in in one of the offices at the well at the old Dioson Center. Not sure. Hopefully it's found a new home. But um, but yeah, these are I remember these photos too. Looking back, quite memorable. Um just seeing the joy in Bishop Kevin and and in the children and oh i i it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

In fact, photographing every mass is like that. I mean, you know, yeah being uh being privileged to be at so many of our uh large masses, but even our small masses, when you you when you realize like a each and every mass.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Do you have a favorite? Like would do you prefer shooting at the cathedral versus like a smaller.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

No, I I like I like the variation. Yeah, I mean it keeps it keeps you moving, keeps you thinking. Um you know, my favorite part of the mass is the consecration. That's that's when it's all taking place, you know. Everything before that point, it's leading up to that, but that's that's the moment we're I'm photographing Jesus at that point. And it's like such a cool experience. Uh but once you realize that and we and we believe as Catholics that that is the body and blood of Christ, I'm like, what a blessing that is for me to be photographing Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

You know, and I I meant to ask you, Joe, it's such a beautiful story. Um maybe we can go back to it. So when I was asking about well, it came up that you were so I guess a cradle Catholic, right? So you were raised Catholic. Your parents actually both attend St. Bond Adventures, right? Yes in Patterson. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

They all known as uh Padre Pio Parents.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

Padre Pio, thank you. We gotta get their plug in there. It's still the uh Saint St. Bond's church building, though. So you were raised Catholic, and then I remember you told me it's quite a moving story about an e an encounter with Jesus that you had with the Eucharist that maybe drew you closer to him?

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Or what what's you know it there there's there's many experiences and I I forget which one I might have told you at the time.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

Uh I think it was that you so you're constantly around Jesus in the Eucharist.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

I and I I do gotta say, I mean, this this uh the assignments and photographing for the diocese has made me so much stronger in my faith. Um not only what I know and what I understand now, I mean I guess everything I learned in Catholic school for like 16 years growing up or whatever is nothing compared to what I see and witness now. And also by seeing the faces of our diocese, I mean there's so many people that I have photographed, um, you know, parishioners, our priests, uh little children, the elderly, uh the poor, the wealthy, they're we're we're all together sharing the same vision of uh Jesus Christ our Savior. And it's like, whoa, like that's a blessing in itself, just being part of that.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Okay. Um that that's beautiful. Um yeah, I mean, how can how can it not impact you being in at so many masses at around the Eucharist so often, right? Around these really holy men and women religious and priests and and the lay. I mean, it's uh it's been a blessing for me to work for the the diocese and the beacon and I'm sure it's been what four years for you now, five years? I think it's yeah, three and a half, four or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Right, right. And you've probably seen your own faith grow uh by being part of it in that short time. Uh you can't help it. I mean, you know it's uh it it's just it's the power of the Lord at work.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Yeah, yeah. So okay. So as we kind of near the near the end of the Episode this segment. Um, can we talk about I don't know, tips for people that want to take better photos? Photography tips. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Again, you know, barring with what everybody knows, but let's start out basic. To get photos, you need light. Without light, you can't get a photograph. Uh you know, pay attention to light. You know, there's a lot of things that you could do when you're looking for it and you're looking for light the way it hits a certain subject. Um practice little exercises in your backyard. Watch a tree or a flower in your backyard. Look at it several times a day. See how the sun's affecting it in the morning compared to the middle of the day compared to the afternoon. And and then you say, wow, you know, same subject, but yet it looks different every time. Um so that's why I always say pay attention to lighting.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Um is there a better time to shoot like during outdoors during the day? You know, like is it like overcast? You want the sun over directly over top, or do you want to?

SPEAKER_02 45:27

It depends on what you're photographing. I mean, if you have control over situations, and you know, obviously, if you're doing landscapes, you want that nice, beautiful blue sky, sunny day that pops all the colors. If I'm photographing uh little children uh doing uh sports sports photography, holding their soccer ball portraits, you know, I want an overcast day. Uh-huh. You know, so then they're not squinting or you don't have our shadow.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Um more of an even lighting. More of an even lighting. You can control it.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Especially throughout the uh the shoe. Okay. So the beginning of the shoot kind of looks like the end of the shoot. From an artistic standpoint, a lot of people like early in the morning or late at night. Uh or or dusk, dawn and dusk, you know, the magic hours uh of sunlight. Because you get you're gonna get longer shadows, you get extreme uh low lighting uh coming in. It's very pretty. And you get the colors are different throughout the different times of day. You know, there you go. That's yeah, that's after sunset, so you wind up with different colors.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Is there a better season? Like is summer, spring, fall a better to shoot.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

No, because everybody likes a different season. I mean, you know, some people love the winter, some people love the summer. Okay. I love fall, I love spring. I love all the seasons. They all offer something different. So it depends on what you like to get and then oh, shooting manual versus.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

That's what we were covering.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

I use a lot of different techniques when I'm shooting. Uh sometimes uh I'll be in a manual, a full manual mode with my camera where I'm controlling my aperture, I'm controlling my shutter speed, I'm controlling my uh my ISO, which we used to call ASA in the film days. Oh there's points I let the camera choose the ISO, and I let the camera choose the shutter speeds, and I'm still picking my F-stops. So everything has there's a lot of techniques and a lot of different techniques, and I kind of blend a lot.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

So you can have like the aperture set to manual and the shutter speed set to auto, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

One of the things inside the church, and this is a good point that you you need as much light as possible inside the church. So inside the church, uh you're gonna need ISOs that are high. So you're gonna want a camera that can handle high ISOs. Uh I would want a camera that lives at that 3200 ISO to 6400 ISO that can give me a good clean photo. Okay. Uh without grain. Without grain, or as little as possible.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

Yeah. And so I notice you don't use flash photography.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Yeah, we'll not use flash inside the uh church. I just feel it takes away from uh from from the moment that we're in. Again, getting back to what we were talking about earlier. I don't want to be a distraction to somebody that's there praying. I don't want to be a distraction to bishop or our priests, you know, where you know flash goes off you're constantly looking. I mean, how many weddings you've gone to? Not to put down wedding photographers, they got their own style and what they got to do, but they're not putting the mass first. Uh yeah, they're putting their picture first.

SPEAKER_04 48:30

Well, I I I love that, and I'm sure many of the people who are attending Mass that Mass is at your at also appreciate that. So thank you. Good. So um more tips.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

So um Did we fully answer that question with the uh with the automatic versus manual? I mean it really varies.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

It sounds like a personal preference.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

It is a personal preference.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Like is it if uh am I not a good photographer if I'm shooting in an auto?

SPEAKER_02 48:57

No, no, no. I mean, um you gotta go with what works, and there's so many different techniques out there. There's people that like to shoot raw, which means you know that you're taking you're letting the camera shoot its native format. Okay. Every camera's kind of different, and then people bring it back to their computer and they they tweak however they need the color to be. I like to shoot a JPEG because I need to work quickly with photos and I trust my cameras to give me what I'm looking for.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

So you're getting all right, so you touched on uh post like post-production, yeah. So um so yeah, in a r with a raw photo, you can actually, it's almost like you can take the photo over again.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

To an extent. You know, uh there's a there's a lot of debate on So talk about post-production.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

How intense do you get in the post post?

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I do not get that intense at all in post-production. Believe it or not, post-production is my least favorite uh part of the business. Okay. I'd rather be out there shooting more pictures. Um I guess because I've been photographed uh a photographer since 1984 or so what are we looking at there? 46 years uh in the business, right? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 50:07

Um yeah, so it sounds like you're you're you like to keep your focus on what matters the most, which is the capturing the actual image.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Yeah, I don't want the camera to get in my way, I don't want the film to get in my way, I don't want to think about oh, I have to post-produ uh you know, go into post and fix this and fix that. Shoot it right to begin with, and everything else follows. Uh yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

I mean, if you're working so hard in post-production, maybe just go back and try taking the photo and reshoot it.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Right. But in the case of what we're doing, you can't reshoot it. True. It's happened already. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

You gotta trust yourself. New sort of photography, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

You know, trust yourself, trust your equipment. Spot photography, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 50:50

Talk about this photo. This is a beautiful photo. So you have the light is streaming in.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Oh, that's yeah, that's uh that's like a weird. That is my backyard. Uh I I am fortunate enough to uh live in the woods here.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

Yes. We are in Bud Lake.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Bud Lake uh we can uh everybody in the diocese knows where I'm at or knows where to find me. I don't hide. Um but I get to look out my back window and I get to see woods, I get to see deer, bear, and everything else that comes through the yard. And sometimes I get to see some cool lighting patterns. So it's just my normal backyard.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

But how do you even know that's like back there to be photographed?

SPEAKER_02 51:30

That's that's flare coming from an old uh antique Nikor lens that I was using.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

Uh I believe that was uh Oh, so that's on the lens, not from the sun.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

No, that well, that is caused by the sun. Okay. Uh and then the old equipment was not uh coded, didn't have the lens coatings that we have today that prevent that from happening. So uh you take your old Leica glass, that might have been an old Leica lens, you know, now that I think about it, okay, you know, uh you know, each lens has its own character.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

And you might say, hey Joe, why do you have a hundred different lenses? Yeah. That's because sometimes I feel like working in a different um it's like an artist's paintbrush. You know, uh not that I'm comparing myself to an artist, but it gives you different tools too. And when you work with different tools, it gives you a different perspective on how to work.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

I would say most definitely you're an artist. Well, thank you. And you're uh in a creative field, I no doubt. You mentioned Leica. Uh um were you shooting in l with Leica's for a time?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

I was not a huge Leica fan. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Um within the last I know the name, I know it's they're quite expensive, you know, but their reputation is the reputation with the German glass is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Some will debate. I might be the one that debates that night course are better, but uh really okay. That that's just my personal opinion. Okay. Each company has their own style of of of color and saturation and clarity and sharpness. Okay. So it's a matter of it's a matter of taste. You know, some people like oil paintings, some people like watercolor.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

You know, so if someone's looking to get started and maybe they want to take a step up from taking photos on their iPhone, and hey, I want to get a which are pretty darn good, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah, right. It's kind of scary on these photos. Uh like people hand me their iPhone at church. Hey, could you grab a group photo? And I'm like, okay, you know, I do it. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like, this thing is looking pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

I love that you respect the the power of the iPhone or the iPhone as a as a photo photograph tool. Do you do you take photos on your phone?

SPEAKER_02 53:36

I I do use my cell phone occasionally, and I must admit, it's been more and more this past year. Um sometimes I'm out fishing and I see something. Uh like I think yesterday I was out fishing and an eager walks up next to me. Oh, wow. And I don't have my camera because I'm fishing. And I'm like, okay, where's my cell phone? And I take a cell phone of this bird that stands about three feet tall, standing like less than 10 yards away from me. Awesome. And I was like, okay, that's a cell phone photo, I gotta go with it.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Yeah, but it sounds like you also t use it for practical photos as well. Maybe you're doing work around the house or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, yeah. I use it to document stuff. Uh, because I, you know, we sometimes get forgetful, and I find it's the perfect tool for when I park my car over at St. Joe's Hospital and I forget what floor I'm on. Before I hop in the elevator, I'm like, okay, I'm on foray, you know, so I'll find my car afterwards. Or if I'm building a project around the house uh and I need to see some dimensions or something like that. So when I get to the store to buy whatever I need, I'm like, oh, what was that? I need so there's huge practical purposes for me using a cell phone also. Yeah. I just might not be doing it for family photos or although my wife and I, when we go out to eat, I always photograph our dinner sometimes. Then I photograph her, you know. So they wind up being cell phone photos. Okay. Uh nothing wrong with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

All right. So um any other takeaways if if I work at a parish or a school and I and I want to just take better photos, whether it's maybe a group shot.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Uh one of my maybe least favorite. No, I got a I got a couple good tips for that. Uh and people look at me strange when I do this and we're actually photographing it.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Um pay attention to your background. Okay. Sometimes your background might be more important than your subject to pay attention to. Because you have your subject's attention. You're posing them, they're going to be looking at you. But look for distractions. I mean, if something is distracting in the background, it's going to show in the photo.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

And then that's not like an object.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

An object, uh, a sign, uh street signs. Uh one of my light or something. Yeah, one of my pet peeves inside churches, but there's nothing I could legally do about it, is the exit signs over doorways. It's like, oh man, how could I get but I look for creative angles where something's blocking it. I can't remove the sign. Oh, yeah. So just step left, step right, step forward, backwards.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

Element and sometimes takes back hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Um, and then on the other hand, it's sometimes you could, depending on the lens you're using, I could throw it so far out of focus that it just looks like a ball of light. You know, and then you can use it artistically. So when I'm f photographing in the church is I'm looking at my background just as much as my subject.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Uh to help tell the story. Because you you're in you're in a setting, you're the the whole picture is part of the story. Yeah. And what good is having your subject in a situation where the background doesn't work for what you're doing?

SPEAKER_04 56:49

You mentioned story, right? And so part of the reason we're doing this episode is to for us to become the best storytellers and communicators that we can. But talk about, you know, a photo's a thousand words, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:01

So a photo is a thousand words.

SPEAKER_04 57:03

How does a photograph tell a story?

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Photograph is uh gonna tell the story by what the viewer is uh commun what's communicating to the viewer at that point. And us as the photographer, we're trying to convey a message through that photo. And again, it's getting into our subject matter, which in the case of the mass, I can't change that. Um if it's a s uh uh uh a mass that has certain blessings going on that day, or if it's a feast day mass uh and they might have some pictures of that saint up, I try to incorporate that into the background. Um above all else, I always try to incorporate the crucifix into my pictures. Um I love candles. I I like to make sure I have sets of three where I'm saying you look for little minds.

SPEAKER_04 57:56

Sets of three. Sets of three.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

So so when you look at the if I'm gonna have candles in the picture, I try to have three, and that represents the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So I I work in thirds. That's my rule of thirds. It's like, you know, uh, you just find different ways to communicate the story, and believe it or not, your viewers all of a sudden start seeing this. Uh you know, oh look at that, the crucifix, it's all in the picture. Well, you know, that was all in the picture because I centered it, I tried to center it that way. Uh I didn't haphazardly take the photo. So pay it goes back to paying attention to the background.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

So you're you're to you're very conscious of everything that's in the frame. In the frame when you take a photo.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Besides the lighting, we gotta be conscious of what's in the our subject, obviously. I mean, it's no good if I have Bishop looking terrible, but yet the background looks really good because I'm not going to be able to do that. Bishop never looks terrible. You know what? Bishop has one of the happiest, greatest smiles. And when I hand in my photos and I'm editing post-production, I look for the smiles. I look for the twinkle in the eye. I look for the happy moment. Because most of the time, for most of our stories, everything we do, it's kind of happy. I mean, there's times I need a serious look on his face, and I'll look for that. But uh he always starts out with a happy little joke or something uh with a smile, and I know I'm gonna get that at the beginning of his homilies. So at that point, then I'm like, I know I got what I need. I can go sit down, I can listen now instead of photographing throughout the whole homily being a distraction or whatever it might be. Um but yeah, there's certain things that you grow into that you just uh you wind up doing. As far as what we could tell some of the uh viewers out there, since we're on the topic of backgrounds, I can't stress this enough. Stop putting people against the wall. Give them a little depth. You know, especially in planned group shots. Obviously, if you're shooting something on the run, uh you know, run and gun, shooting what's naturally happening, you don't have that control. But when we have time to set up a group shop, yeah, get them away from the wall.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Oh how far away?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

I would say they're further the better.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

No walls. No walls. Create some depth in the photo. Okay. And above all else, and this is gonna be really uh important for uh some of our um parishes, uh, if you're photographing something that's taking place and the kids did some artwork and it's hanging on the wall, yeah. Try to set up in an angle where I could see that artwork instead of putting people standing in front of it, because the moment you stand in front of it, we're blocking what we want it to see in the background anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

An angled photo would be far more interesting than a flat photo, anyway, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

I am uh I'm not a fan of shooting something straight on. I see ever I see angles for everything. Um to me it's important, if not for anything else, so then it looks different. You know, just a photo looking different, a viewer is gonna look at the photo. If things look the same all the time, it's not gonna catch somebody's eye because it becomes white noise. Oh, yeah, here goes another group photo. Oh, here goes another group. Well, make those group photos, try to make those group photos uh, you know, just a little different. You know, we're we've been doing a lot of group photos, which are great. I love seeing uh, like say Bishop with whatever group we're with, you know, you know, before or after mass. The candidge personally are my favorite. Um you know, but you know, yeah, it's necessary also to get the group photos because that's a lot more people that we're welcoming together that they get to see themselves uh with say bishop or whoever our pastor is at that mass.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

And you're also documenting a moment, documenting the people who are there at a given time.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Yeah. So um you know it our par our our diocese is it's amazing, you know, the amount of uh different groups of people, different styles, different uh our priests. We have so so many wonderful great priests, you know, that I like to try to show their personality.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:15

Um you're you're in and out of um different cultures, uh the Hispanic Latino uh masses, yeah, our Polish communities, our German communities. Okay, yeah, you know, I've I've different flavors.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

I've been to masses with so many different languages. I wish I understood all the languages. But I'm lucky I understand English half the time. Uh you know, I had teachers that used to say that. Joe, don't you understand English?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:41

Well, you certainly understand the art of photography, and your English is just fine to me, Joe. So why don't we why don't we leave it there? Um thank you again for being a part of uh this episode for the f our inaugural um the good news workshop, and hopefully um our our viewers and our listeners are can come away having learned something and and maybe apply some of these techniques and ideas to I love to talk photography and cameras, so if anybody has a question, they could reach out to me by email or something like that. Yeah, I'll share your contact.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

I'm never shy in the show notes about staring somebody in the right direction.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

Yeah, and if um do you if you if someone sees you at mass, do they can they can come?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

I have a couple rules about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

As long as it's after mass or before mass and we're not uh in the church uh itself, you know. Okay. Let's let's go out the dwarfs. Yeah. I think there was uh one of our gospel readings where uh you know Jesus came into the temple and they were selling everything and he gets upset and turns the tables over. So I'm like, you know what? When we're in the church building itself, it's it's it's worship time. Yeah. You want to talk shop? Let's go outside real quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:54

Yeah. Well, good. Yeah, your focus is spot on. And uh it's been a pleasure working with you and and uh getting to see your photos all the time. And uh so thanks again, Joe. Jay, you're welcome. Okay, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Please subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating. Get to know us better by following Bishop Kevin's Instagram and Beyond the Beacon on social media. Leave the bishop's weekly column on beaconnj.org and get in touch if you have a question for the bishop or podcast topic idea and discover our other podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

See you next time. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Jay. Thank you.