SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast on the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. Join us for conversations about our Catholic faith and together let's strive to live a life of faith, hope, and love. We're so glad you can join us. I'm Jay Agnish, Communications Director for the Diocese and editor of The Beacon, our news website. With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney. Bishop, how are you?

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Oh good, Jay. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Doing well. How's your how's your summer going? Feels like it's been forever. Yeah, it's it's been a little while, a month or so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

July 4th was a long time ago now, right? Yeah. My goodness, 24 days ago, right? Today's the 28th, so flying by, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

I was away up in Canada for a couple a couple m mu uh weeks. Good time in Canada. It was nice, yeah, it was be it was great. Still still a little jet-lagged, but it's on the west coast, so but uh but yeah, it was great, refreshing. Uh saw some family and uh some beautiful beaches and and uh yeah, a lot of disc golf while I was there. I almost nearly had two aces, but not to be. But any uh any golf or any any recreating for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:14

I had a few days in the Poconos with some friends, played some golf, so that was nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Oh, there you go. Nice, good. And um so before we go too much further, I want to introduce Father Michael Rodak, who uh in the context of this i uh episode is is so you're the diocesan um pilgrimage director, right? You're also the pastor of St. Jude's in in Hardison. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Happy feast day. Um the feast of St. James, the patron saint of pilgrims. And you've been pilgrimage director almost since you've been ordained, right? For the diocese. So you and St. James would be uh pretty tight.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yes. That's correct. You're very, very true about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

So between your parish and the pilgrims, you got two of the twelve apostles, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

That's absolutely correct. Should we uh open open with prayer?

SPEAKER_04 2:03

Sure. Um we place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. We give thanks to God for the gifts and blessings of each day, and we seek to know and do the Lord's will as a pilgrim people striving to follow Jesus day by day with the help of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the help and intercession of the saints, especially of Mary, our blessed mother, who walks with us on the journey of life and faith, leading us always closer to Jesus, her son. We pray through the intercession of Mary, our blessed mother, the Immaculate Conception, as we say. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Our Lady, seat of wisdom, Mother of the Church, pray for us. Saint Joseph, pray for us, Saint James, pray for us. All holy men and women, pray for us, pray for us. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

All right, yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

This is a great time of year for saints, the end of July and August. Um, St. James, Joel Coming Anne, grandparents on this past Sunday. Um tomorrow, Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, um, uh um Friday, uh Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits, uh Saturday, uh St. Alphonsus Ligori, the founder of the Redemptors, and uh um St. John Viani, patron saint of Parish Priests, on August 4th. So um I'm probably missing a couple, but uh August 6th, the transfiguration, I think. So um so um uh good days, lives of the saints. Uh the Hallow app as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

True, true. You know, and actually it's you know, you mentioned that, and I'm thinking, like, you know, Martha, you know, was always so busy, you know, what does our Lord say?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Right, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

And I don't think that there's uh any greater idea or a better thing to do than to take a pilgrimage. To take a break and to have some time for prayer. Right, right. So I mean I think uh maybe we should reach out to you know an intercession of you know of uh St. Martha here to help us along here, to help people to take a break and find the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

And uh it was for a long time on the uh in the books, uh Feast of St. Martha, but thanks to Pope Pope Francis, it became Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, the family, the two sisters and the brothers. So as we invite individuals, we invite families as well to uh participate in the pilgrimage, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Right. And we have had some families already contact and have already signed up for the two-day pilgrimage already, uh, which is great. Uh you know, it was just in communication with a family uh last week, and uh they had said that, you know, you know, that they wanted to bring their two young kids, and I said, you know, that's great. So you know it's a great awareness to the faith, it's a great awareness for the whole family to be praying together and being part of you know, two very special days.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, so every three years, right, our diocese makes a pilgrimage as one diocesan family to the National Shrine in Washington, D.C. And we're coming up on that third year again in in October, and so there will be a one-day pilgrimage opportunity and then a two-day pilgrimage opportunity, which we'll which we'll talk about. And um as part of this episode, Father Michael had uh had a had a great interview with um Bobby uh Duke, who's the curator of the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. So the Museum of the Bible is one of the stops for the the if you participate in the two-day pilgrimage in in which you can uh take part in. So we're gonna go to that interview a little later, but for now we want to give a general overview of what's happening and maybe talk about the importance of a pilgrimage and uh where do you where do you think the best place to start is?

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Right. Thanks, Jay. Uh and thanks, Father Michael, again for being with us and for your work, not only as pastor of St. Jude's, but uh uh for their work uh helping to lead our pilgrimages uh here in the diocese back before my time. What year again were you ordained a priest?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Oh seven.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

In two thousand seven. And from the beginning did Bishop Saratelli, yeah, the 2010.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Um right. So uh three years later. Three years later you were uh Bishop Saratelli asked you to help, is that it?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, and uh well actually it was I was working with uh Monsignor Dempkevich, uh God bless his soul, who uh really uh devoted his life to uh pilgrimage and prayer. And uh then Bishop Saratelli asked me to t do it and uh we went from there.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

So uh before you went to seminary, you did some work in politics, right? Was it in the working in Trenton?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yes, I did. I worked for a couple legislators and was working on mainly a lot of uh, you know, family life, pro-life issues and everything for the uh, you know, for the two legislators that I was working for.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

Aaron Ross Powell And had you been interested in pilgrimages before you uh got into the city of the Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah, because you know, going down to the March for Life, of course, down to Washington, and but also um, you know, I I find that, you know, you need that pr time of prayer, you need that break. And I I think a break is so very important. I I I think that we everybody is so busy, it's it's not just for priests, all of us are busy. And I think that everybody, if they have the opportunity to take a break and just to just step back and just let maybe God talk to them. And I think that that's what the pilgrimage offers, is that whenever you go to a shrine, go to a place of prayer, it gives you that opportunity. Now's my time, God, you know, just to be with God. It's like almost an oasis.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Right. And uh it can be a longer or shorter pilgrimage. We just celebrated the feast of St. James, and um a lot of people are familiar with the uh with the Camino, right? Uh I want to do the Camino on not everybody knows it's the Camino of Santiago de Compostela, right? It ends at Compostela where the um relics of St. James are in buried. Uh and uh uh so for centuries now, um uh and it's made a comeback. I mean it's incredible how popular it is. So people walking 30 days, right? Sometimes uh and there's I think seven or ten days. I haven't done it yet. I hope one of these days maybe to be able to. But um uh it's a great part of our spiritual heritage, the old experience of pilgrimage. Uh and we're gonna give an opportunity uh, as we do each three each um every three years to see our nation's capital, if you haven't before, um uh the national shrine of the basilica of the Immaculate Conception, is that right? Actually, it's just a little bit different. But I know I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

It's the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

The Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. Correct. If you haven't been there, it's worth the trip just to see. Yes. The beautiful church really built by the people of the country and and the bishops um uh took a long time to build, but it's on the campus of Catholic University, which is another thing to see. Um but for those who are listening or watching and uh thinking, um, should I go on the pilgrimage? Um, Father Michael, maybe just uh tell us a little bit about maybe first uh why someone would want to go, uh as you've already talked about just getting away. Um uh something we can do together as a diocese, um, why people would want to go, and then if they want to go, how do they sign up? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

So what I always say to people, and as I said a few moments ago, is that you know, we we need to take a prayer time, we need to take a break. Uh lives are very busy. Uh families are so busy with their children going from one place to another. Uh, and even for those who are retired, there's never like such a thing as you're totally retired. And I think if there's an opportunity for somebody to just take that break. And it, you know, the one-day pilgrimage, yes, you do spend a significant amount of time in the bus. But in that bus, you know, ride and are like that, you pray the rosary, and the whole idea of pilgrimage is that you anticipate. You're anticipating what's going to take place. So that when they get to the basilica, the national shrine of the Immaculate Conception, they they are getting there uh to the largest church in the Americas, uh, number one. Number two is that a location there where you have either different within the the the shrine itself, the basilica, you have, you know, like eighty different statues and and and different personal stat you know, shrines that you can see. To different titles of our blessed brother. Absolutely. Well, titles of that and also of the saints. Okay. So you know, so for example, you you know, you have uh a beautiful one that I always try to go to when I'm there is uh, you know, Our Lady of the Miraculous Metal, uh, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Chestahova.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

And when you first walk in and you make a left, first on your left, the shrine of Our Lady of Nock of Ireland. Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah, and not far from that is actually, yes, is that, and also St. Teresa of the Child Jesus is there, too. Beautiful statute of her. So, but the these actual shrine places where you could go to each of those individual shrines on the upper level, there's two levels of the of the basilica. The upper level also offers the Blessed Sacrament Chapel, um, and you know, uh you have, you know, besides those chapels, uh, you know, and the upper level, you have the beautiful Trinity Dome, uh, which I have a, you know, on pilgrimage conference that I go to every March uh down at the basilica, I had the great opportunity when that was being built, uh, and to actually touch the wall and to be able to, you know, see these gigantic letters that you read there. And what are those letters, what is it? It says, it's basically it is the Nicene Creed. So the Nicene Creed is it is what it goes around at the base of that Trinity dome. But there you have the evangelist and you have uh saints that are there, and as well as of course the Trinity. So all of that, and it's just such a beautiful thing to look at as the skylight comes in from the you know from outside, and it really is just something that's really a nice highlight. Um but there is so many different things uh for people to be able to go to. I mean, one of the other places I go to, which is on the crypt level, right before you get into the crypt church, the worship space, is Our Lady of Lords. Uh another, you know, nice place where where I'll go there, you know, do my rosary, um, if I haven't done it upstairs in the upper level, and you know, and just to spend time there and again, personal prayer time. So you also asked about, you know, how do people get to sign up on this? Well, we have two mechanisms, okay? One is to go uh online, and actually they can go right to the diocesan website, rcdop.org, and you know, there'll be a banner that goes across with the different highlights and different things that are coming up here in the diocese uh and you know that we like to highlight. But one of those banner things will be, you know, that come across will be about the Marian pilgrimage uh for October 1617, you know, and then when you go to that, okay, you click on that, you will be able to go down to see where you're signing up for the one-day pilgrimage and you're able to sign up and what parish you're from. The reason for that is we need to gauge, you know, where that interest is because we're going to be placing buses the closest to the you know where the locations where people are interested. But I and the second way though is that people could sign up is right through the directly through their parish. And I've had a number of parishes, especially in our inner city parishes, that have contacted me and said we'd like to have a bus and everything, which has been really very good to hear. So they'll directly have a bus and you know, they will try to fill it up, you know, at locally from their parish. And of course, if you know anyone's is from locally that they have to fill an extra few spots. But nonetheless, I mean there is the that movement is you know is happening uh of interest and desired. So, you know, either two ways, either through online or through their parish.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Good. Yeah, so um so maybe talk about the one day trip versus the two-day trip, and then maybe that's a good time to transition to the interview and yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

So the one day trip, you know, you're gonna get there uh God willing, uh about eleven thirty. Uh we have the uh you'll enter. Uh our bishop is very good. He goes and visits uh everybody as they come out, and everybody wants to get a picture with the bishop, so he's there. Nice group pictures, okay. Yeah, nice group pictures, uh, you know, and he you know, and he's so welcome to do that. And uh, you know, and from there people will be able to go in, enter through the crypt level, uh and you know, that which is the lower level of the basilica, and they'll have that opportunity to, you know, engage in, you know, uh several things that will happen that day. Um we'll have our welcome that will be upstairs, but uh and then we'll have also the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Uh we'll have people have the opportunity to go for reconciliation. Uh so that's always available in the crypt church. And uh then we also have uh, you know, always something a special theme. And this year uh our catechetical office is going to have something on the part four of the uh catechism, which is on prayer. So and so they will be down there, and it will be bilingual. So if anyone, you know, say, you know, their first language of preference would be Spanish, that they'll be able to go to the uh to a bilingual uh, you know, presentation on that. So that will be down on the crypt level as well. And then, you know, again, uh be able to go upstairs. Uh again, that's where the welcome will happen. Uh I think we have scheduled it at right at noontime. And uh, you know, but people will be able to meander throughout the whole church and be able to take part in the uh different things and to be able to see it. If they want to go on a tour with one of the docents that are located down at the basilica, they could do that as well. Um so uh hopefully cafeteria and good books. And yeah, well, you know what, people like to do that too. So, you know, so there is, you know, we have I think there's 120 seats in the cafeteria. So, you know, we're we're not gonna be necessarily easy to see. We'll have to rotate in and out. But yes, I mean a lot of times people want to go to the uh to the shops. There's on both sides of the cafeteria, so if the cafeteria is in the middle, you have the one side, which would be the bookshop, uh, and you know, really great Catholic books, good spiritual books, um, and also uh source books as well. And then you have uh the gift shop, which would be on to the right of the cafeteria. Um so uh yes, they'll have the opportunity to do both of that.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

So uh a pilgrimage uh I remember hearing when I was in the seminary is not a vacation, right? So uh there are you can enjoy yourself, it's a nice way to spend a day. Those the that's great, nothing wrong with that. Uh whether it's the one day or the two-day. Um but a pilgrimage is also an opportunity to offer some a particular intention, right? You might want to take the pilgrimage for someone else, someone who's sick, someone who's a particular prayer intention, and be ready to make some sacrifices. Get up early in the morning, it's a long day, a lot of time on the bus, you'll get to pray. Um but um that word sacrifice, to make holy from two Latin words, uh and and uh to pray for peace, to pray for our diocese, to pray for vocations, to pray for families. Um we have so much that we can pray for. And a pilgrimage is a beautiful way to take a particular intention or two or three, and say, I'm I'm bringing these I'm carrying these petitions with me during the course of the day, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

And just to l you know, you know, Bishop, as well as everyone, is that people will have the opportunity in the uh back of the upper level, uh it's so basically in the narthex, is that they will be actually able to fill out on a piece of paper that will go into a basket, and those baskets will be presented at the closing mass. At the at the closing mass that you're gonna be the main celebrant at, and uh and uh hopefully we'll have a number of con celebrants with you as well. Uh and uh what will happen is that people will be able to, you know, that will be presented in the presentation of the gifts, and those prayers will be placed at, you know, at the altar of, you know, and uh so we'll be praying for all those personal petitions.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

And uh and we carry them with them as pilgrims on the way down and on the way back, and especially offering them at mass those special intentions. So that's the one day. Um the two-day might feel a little bit more like a vacation, is uh but and and it'll be enjoyable and uh uh uh kind of a slower pace because it's over the course of two days. But tell us a little bit about those who can join us for two days.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, the two-day is also gonna be, you know, we're gonna be leaving earlier. That bus will be leaving from uh St. Paul Inside the Walls in Madison, uh 205 Madison Avenue. Um so everybody would be going there from wherever they may be in the diocese, and the the bus will go down. Uh the fur and it will be making a stop at the Museum of the Bible. Uh you'll first have to.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

You'll hear more about the Museum of the Bible shortly. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

And so we'll have, you know, you have lunch, uh, then you'll be able to go on a tour of the museum, and then uh to be able to go on your own uh to different parts, and all of that is covered in the interview that will follow our conversation here today. Uh and then after that you'll go to the hotel, check in, uh, and then we have a banquet with Bishop. Uh so uh so a banquet dinner. Uh get home, uh get back to your room, rest up, and then the next day you will join in that one-day pilgrimage with everyone else.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Um the Yankees might be in the playoffs, but we'll be able to follow that if we're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, we're getting into that third week. October 16th, 17th. We're getting into that third week of the month. Yeah. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, as we say. Um But uh uh whether it's the one day or the two day, hopefully uh you can join us. It's something to do together as the church of the diocese. Hopefully, our priests and pastors, I know, and others leaders are encouraging uh participation in people. But sign up sooner than later so uh we know and we can make good preparations.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, we there is that's very important, Bishop. You uh you said something extremely important. In fact, the sign-up for the two-day pilgrimage is September the 11th. Uh so we really need to have that number uh in order to be able to set up the rooms and everything like that. So there is really we're running on time here if you want to go to make the two-day pilgrimage, and which again a great thing also if you want to bring your families. And again, if you want to bring your families to the one-day pilgrimage, uh that is extended to the end of the month, and uh you'll be able to go ahead and to do that again either online or at your parish. Great.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

So now we're gonna um take a Yeah, so check the show notes. We're gonna have all of this information in the show notes as well. And um yeah, why don't we go to the interview that Father Michael had with Looking forward to that? Yeah, for the Q this is Father Michael. We'll be back then afterwards to say goodbye. So come back after and we'll talk a little more. So why don't we we'll go to that interview now? It's Father Michael Rodak with Bobby Duke, the curator of the Museum of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

I'd like to thank uh Bishop Sweeney for giving us a little time here to have a conversation with actually someone who knows a lot about the Museum on the Bible, and that's uh our guest today, who's the curator uh from the Museum of the Bi uh Bible. So I welcome you uh Bobby here to our uh program and uh Bobby Duke is the curator and uh we welcome you.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

So Bobby, tell us you know, uh I I've been there multiple times. Uh it was a great place. You know, uh original faith that's my own personal feeling. But tell us a little bit more why people should want to attend and go over to the museum of the Bible and to you know, for us who's attending our two-day pilgrimage, in which the first day will include uh the museum of the Bible. So, what would entice them to go?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Well, uh I mean our vision of the museum is to invite all people to engage with the transformative power of the Bible. So even if you mentioned coming on pilgrimage, I mean the museum inspires people to know their the Bible better, but also to understand its rich and important history. So we have multiple floors, multiple activities that we did on different levels, and just draw people in to understand more. Of just the uh the incredible nature of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

So you say that, and you know, somebody may hear that and they may say, Well, gee whiz, I don't really know much about the Bible. You know, I you know, I would like to get into reading it, I'd like to get to know more about it. Um, so is this okay for a novice to go?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Absolutely. Um, we have so many different experiences that uh, like I said, just touch people in different ways. I mean, we have something as simple as uh a ride over the city of Washington, D.C., where you see where scripture is embedded in buildings all over this city. And it just reminds you how uh important scripture has always been to the United States. Uh, we currently have an exhibit that we opened July 3rd in honor of America's 250th. It's called Sacred Liberty, and it just shares how 250 years ago, everybody, whether or not they were hyper-religious or not, they knew the Bible. And it was just part of the uh the water that was drink and the air that was breathed in our country. But we also have a history floor that walks very uh uh methodically through uh how the Bible came to us from scrolls to now scrolling. And uh, we even talk about that. Today, when we sit on an iPad or a phone, we scroll through books. Well, we're just getting back to the scrolling technology that they had 2,000 years ago, because we currently have a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit that people can also see. So it is one that um people of any previous knowledge or no knowledge, people of uh Christian faith or people who are just curious, they can find something here at the Museum of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Yeah, that's wonderful. And now, do you have like anything that's like some you know original? You know, I don't know if you know I would have to say an original Bible, but I think it would be very hard to find, but but do you have any what is some of the Bibles that you have there that you have uh on display that uh relate some have some great dating to it?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yep. So we have this exhibit with uh the Dead Sea scrolls that will be open until September 7th. Uh then it is actually going to move to Houston, uh, and it'll be in Houston for about nine months at the air science museum there. But uh these actually are parts of scripture that date back two thousand years. So we have items that can be viewed right now that were read by the community by the Dead Sea at the same time Jesus and the disciples were teaching around the Sea of Galilee. Umside of that, we have early uh translations Greek, Armenian, Syriac, Coptic. Uh we come all the way up and then tell the story of how the working press transformed the way uh the Bible was uh democratized and made accessible to people. So we have uh of all those different ages, original texts that uh highlight that important history.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Now, you have a lot of movable uh that, you know, as you mentioned, the Dead Sea Scrolls is leaving in September, but uh you have a lot of uh different, you know, things that you offer. Uh one of those is that you actually have a Vatican Museum uh part right there on the first floor as you enter. Um what is something like that that people would be able to uh see?

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah, so before the opening of the museum in 2017, we uh formed a uh kind of partnership uh with the Vatican. We have hosted things over the years uh from their collection. Uh we currently in that uh gallery, the Vatican Gallery, have a mosaic floor, which is the earliest church floor ever discovered archaeologically. This is the first place it has ever been displayed, and it will be here until the end of December, and then it will travel for a season. But it comes to us from uh from Israel. Right on that mosaic floor, it actually gives thanks to the person who paid for the table where you'd have had the Eucharist to the honor of the God Jesus Christ. So the earliest statement of the divinity of Christ on a mosaic floor that dates back to 230, and that's in our Vatican gallery that uh we have set aside for that.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Perfect. Yeah, that's uh that really is very interesting. I mean, and I mean, what are some of the reactions that you get from people uh that when they see that? I guess that there must be, I guess, some awe that that we go, wow, this is such an awesome thing to look at.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, I love to watch people in the Megiddo Mosaic because when they realize it is original. 1800 years ago, early Christians were walking on that floor and having the Eucharist. We get the same response in the Dead Sea Scrolls Gallery when people see the uh limestone table called the Magdala Stone that was found in Magdala, Israel, uh the one of the earliest synagogues we know of around the Sea of Galilee, and quite possibly a uh table that was in the synagogue that Jesus would have visited. Um, people will say, Is that the original or is that a replica? We're like, no, that's the original. And there there is something about being connected to something of that ancient history. Um, here in our own country, we just celebrated 250 years, and sometimes you have to pause when you think of ancient history, particularly anything connected to the Bible. 250 years all of a sudden sounds kind of cute, not uh amazing when you think of 2,000 years old.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, absolutely correct. I mean, there's no doubt. Uh, and you know, just for that to be opened up for people to see uh and to become aware of uh and to grow in their faith, grow in their knowledge, uh, and you know, hopefully that will great do a you know some wonders in people's hearts and minds to have a greater and deeper relationship. So that's wonderful. You had mentioned that there are, you know, multiple floors. Um so what are some of the you know different things on the different floors that people were able to see?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

So our permanent galleries are on our second, third, and fourth floors, and our second floor is what we call the impact of the Bible. Our third floor is stories of the Bible, and our fourth floor is history of the Bible. So most people will actually go to our sixth floor where there's a panoramic view of Washington, D.C. Then they'll start working their way down. Special exhibits are on the fifth floor, but uh the fourth floor with history uh goes through our earliest knowledge of scripture all the way up to the modern digital era and modern Bible translations. Our stories floor, which is our third floor, it has an amazing uh Hebrew Bible experience where in 20 minutes you get the entire story and narrative of the Old Testament. It's narrated the whole time by Ezra, and you get this sense of uh the powerful story of the Old Testament. And I particularly like when school groups, when I see uh uh various school groups that come here on field trips, because I know that many of them in eighth grade or ninth grade, they may not know the Old Testament very well. And in 20 minutes, they have the narrative arc. On that floor, we also have a New Testament experience that focuses particularly in on a passage from Luke 24 of the road to Emmaus, and it really talks about the um uh forgiveness that Jesus offered. And then uh the center of that floor is a replica that's called the uh Jesus at the time of Nazareth, uh, or Nazareth at the time of Jesus. So it's our uh Nazareth village where we have living history interpreters, people dressed up in costume that stay in character, and we'll tell you all about um the grape harvest and barley harvest and uh the how to make olive oil. Uh they'll tell you all about what was life like 2,000 years ago as Jesus was growing up and living in Nazareth. And then our impact of the Bible floor, our second floor. Uh that is one that starts with the Bible in America to show the impact the Bible has had in America. And then it has a section called the Bible in the world. And in that section, different themes are picked up. So we have the Bible in medicine, the Bible in criminal justice, the Bible in art, the Bible in fashion to just show how impactful the Bible is on all these different uh realities around the world. Um yesterday I actually met with a director of a hospital uh in the Middle East that has been a Christian hospital in uh the uh UAE for many, many years. And he was just telling me about uh how their hospital began because people read scripture. And it uh it's just that powerful moment to see in all these different areas how people have read the Bible over the years and then been inspired to do good.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Oh, that's wonderful. Um, I do have a couple follow-ups, but I just want to uh let everyone know if you just tuned in uh to today's podcast of Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Sweeney, uh, we're having a special uh guest today. Uh and also I am doing the interviewing here. Um Father Michael Rodak, the diocesan pilgrimage director, speaking about our October pilgrimage that will be taking place uh the 16th and 17th is a two-day and the one-day uh main pilgrimage is the 17th to the Basilica of the National Shrine. And our guest here today uh is Bobby Duke, uh, who is the chief curator of the Museum of the Bible. And we've been discussing so many different things uh with him today, and very glad that we have you here with us, uh Bobby. Um and I want to do just a couple follow-ups. So, you know, let's go back to this whole thing, you know, on the on that floor. You know, you're saying that people will go into Nazareth and uh actually like bring them back in time. People will be in the costume to be able to talk to them. What is that really like? I mean, you know, so you know I I mean I've heard already uh from one of the employees at the museum that you don't ask them to take pictures of you because the cameras weren't around in that time. So tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah, no, the characters will stay in character. So if you try to hand them a cell phone and say, take a picture of us, they'll be like, this is such a strange device. I've never seen anything like this. So they will uh kind of stay in character. Um but I would say the one of the challenges modern people have with reading scripture is there are so many foreign concepts, or if you don't understand the cultural background of the Bible, you can uh even misunderstand certain passages. So being something in that village, you get a sense of the fact that uh when Jesus came to the synagogue of Nazareth uh in the beginning of the Gospels and was rejected, you get a sense that it's a small place. So people knew each other. I mean, he's rejected by family and friends um that uh were there. So you just get taken back in time to the to the to the life and the world of Jesus and the disciples.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, I would I would assume that, you know, as people are walking in there, and you know, many people who have never you know traveled uh to Nazareth uh and you know having the opportunity uh to be able to just see a glimpse of what it was all like. I also understand that the chosen had used a portion of that area for uh one of their programs as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Correct. So we have a uh a uh movie theater basically tucked in between our New Testament experience and our Nazareth village that is showing clips of the chosen all day. Um we also have another theater on uh fourth floor that actually will show um these videos by a man named David Stott, who does this uh journey through scripture. And we also right now are showing uh episodes of the Dead Sea Squirrels. Think of squirrels. There's a there's an animated children series that's uh written by a Christian uh animator. There's videos, books, but it uh follows these two squirrels that teach you about uh ancient scrolls, the Bible, the history of the Bible. So um again, for uh anyone in your group who might be bringing children, there's there's things in the museum to actually give them some time if they don't want to look at ancient books, they can then reflect on uh how animated squirrels can teach them about the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Well, that's really that sounds wonderful. And yeah, we do already have a couple uh young people that are gonna be going with their parents on the trip, so uh I'm glad to hear that. Uh and hopefully uh it will entice others to uh be able to do this two-day pilgrimage. And uh Friday is the day in which we'll be going to the Museum of the Bible. And um this is uh really wonderful here. In our last few minutes here, I I just want uh you know ask you, you know, there has been a great draw. Uh I mean, a lot of uh advertising. Uh I've seen it in the Metro in Washington, which is the Washington subway, for those who have not used it. Uh I've I've also uh it was uh had a good prominence uh at the uh Great American Fair uh back in the uh early part of July. Uh so there has been a lot of movement to try to uh attract people and to let people know about the Bible. Why is that such and so relevant an importance to people to have that?

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah, so no, we have uh realized that uh the Museum of the Bible is one of the best kept secrets here in Washington, D.C., even though we're in a very prominent building. Um but again, people can uh just get into their routines and not realize some of the treasure sitting right there. So we did around the 4th of July do a couple metro stop takeovers where you could see our advertisement everywhere. Um, but again, we just want to invite all people in to learn about how transformative the Bible has been. Uh, everyone probably has a preconceived notion of scripture that may not be based in any kind of reality or fact. So we're just putting before uh any of our guests to come in, whether they are deeply people of faith, or if they're uh questioning and skeptical, well, come and learn about it directly. Um and uh read all about its history and its antiquity and uh some of the uh the things that you may not have considered when you just hear the word Bible.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

You say transformative, but would you also consider it to be immersive?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

No, for sure. Um we uh we even I would say the Nazareth village is one of those immersive experiences that uh touch, taste, feel, you can see it all around you. Um that Nazareth village during uh uh the Christmas season, we actually transformed it into Bethlehem and had a nativity where uh guests could come in and hear all about uh the time of taxation 2,000 years ago. And it really was a goal to um, as people are already thinking about the nativity, well, let's put them right into the scene. So they had to go into the synagogue and they are also looking for rooms to stay in. And it's one where anything we can do immersively, I think, helps our guests, particularly any of our younger guests.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Right. You have two films that are also that are uh one on the old testament, one on the new testament, also on that same floor, if I could remember correctly.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Correct. Yeah, the Hebrew Bible experience like has film woven into it, but you walk through and then you're being uh uh told the story of the Hebrew Bible, and then uh again, I already mentioned the chosen showing, um, and then that film about the road to Emmaus. Um, the Washington Revelation is a film, but you're actually feeling like you're flying over uh DC. So it is very technologically advanced too that we have not just signs to read, but also experiences to have.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah, the you know, and when people do that, you know, they're only gonna get to more and more knowledge and you know, and actually almost like a love of the Bible. And I think would you say that you know that is one of the goals of the museum is to be able to have people leave, not only to be, you know, have a an awareness of the Bible and to be enticed to be able to learn about the Bible, but really also to love the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

No, absolutely. I think uh we would love every visitor who comes to kind of move one step down if they come as a skeptic, that they're now realizing that I need to look into that. If they come as a nominal person of faith, they're like, wait a minute, my faith is something that has antiquity and history. If they come with already a deep love for scripture, this just gives them the grounding to know why that is. So I think we have developed a museum that can take people wherever they come and move them to a place where they will uh love and respect Scripture.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Well, Bobby, I really appreciate all the time that you've given us here on our podcast here for the Bishop and Beyond the Beacon. Uh, it has really been a pleasure for me to spend some time with you. I know that uh I'm personally looking forward to it. I know the bishop is also going to go to the Museum of the Bible uh as well. And uh we're hoping that we have enough pilgrims to be down there to uh enjoy it and to become not only the immersive experience, um, but also uh to find a newness of and a new love of the Bible. And I think that that's what's so very important. And uh I'm you know truly grateful for you joining us today, Bobby, uh, for giving us this time. And uh, you know, God willing, uh we're gonna be uh seeing each other in uh October and uh looking forward to the opportunity uh for everybody to walk out of there with that newfound love of the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Oh well, thank you so much, Father. And uh do I hope as many people who hear this podcast will realize this would be a great opportunity for them to learn more about Scripture. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Great, Bobby. Thank you very much, and you have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Well done, Father Michael, you're a pro.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

It was my days that I spent a little time in doing newswork, so you go.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

We got all the news about the Museum of the Bible, correct? Things you can see in DC, and uh well. Um anything that surprised you?

SPEAKER_02 40:21

I know you've learned a lot of it you're aware of already, but I think you know, for me, I I've not been to the Holy Land, so I mean they have actually a replica location there of walking the street of Nazareth, and actually they have characters that are there. Uh and as Bobby Duke, the curator, had mentioned uh during the interview, is that don't ask them to go ahead and take a picture with you, okay? Of you or a selfie with you, because they there is no such thing as phones in those days. So uh they actually play the part of what they what their role is and what they were doing in that time. And uh just to be able to see that I think is really uh is just very touching, I think. And uh, you know, it hits home. It hits home uh because uh to realize that you know this is the town of where Jesus was born, and to have something that is replicate set that is so important.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Like being on the set of the chosen.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

Actually, Bishop, the part of the chosen was filmed there. And actually people will be able to see clippings of that from there.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Um Well, thank you for that, and uh we hope that many will be able to join us for the two-day pilgrimage, so they'll be able to. I haven't been there yet, and I'm looking forward to the first time. Yes, I'm glad to hear that you're gonna be coming as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Yes, uh, you know, again, sign up for that is very important September 11th. Please do reach out uh directly to the pilgrimage office, uh, which is located at St. Drew the Apostle in Hardyston. Or uh just, you know, again, you could do it on the website for the banner uh that goes to the code.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

I see the Paterson. R C D O P. Right, right. And um I think this will be will this be out by the end of the week?

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Uh yeah, we'll get it out.

SPEAKER_04 41:57

Right. So uh if you're hearing this before August 1st, say a prayer for uh one of our seminarians, Carlos Vargas, who will be ordained a deacon this coming Saturday at Cecil's home parish of uh uh St. Anthony's in Passaic. Uh and uh um looking forward to that. So uh and uh our seminarians with our um vocation director, Father Charlie Lana, and a bunch of discerners are actually doing uh for the second year um a service retreat this week, uh, thanks to our friends at the um Loyola Retreat Center in Morristown, and um they're staying there each night but going out. Yesterday they visited the Salesian sisters in their summer camp in North Heldon. I think they got a lot of rain in North Heldon yesterday. Um but um but they were there in the morning, it was fine, and then they uh had made sandwiches the night before and were distributing them to people in need uh in the city of Patterson, and they're doing something different each day. And uh good way for Carlos to get ready for his uh uh diaconal services, he'll be ordained a deacon. But so we uh pray for them and pray for vocations.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Check the beacon for coverage of these various events, and all right, so I guess we'll we'll leave it there then. Thank you, Father Baikon. Thank you for watching. And thank you all for joining us. Please subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating. Get to know us better by following Bishop Kevin's Instagram and Beyond the Beacon on social media. Read the bishop's weekly column on beaconnj.org. Get in touch if you have a question for the bishop or a podcast topic idea, and discover our other podcasts. See you next time.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

God bless you.