SPEAKER_06 0:08

Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast of the Diocese of Patterson. On Beyond the Beacon, we have conversations about living lives of faith, hope, and love, embodying our Catholic faith in the way that we live and love. We're glad that you can join us. My name is Father Paul Manning. I'm a guest host on Beyond the Beacon today, and I'm sitting here with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, our Bishop of Patterson. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

I'm good, Father Paul. Thank you for for being in Jay's seat somewhat in terms of beyond the beacon. We're here at the St. Paul's uh studio, which is uh happy to be back uh at our evangelization center here in St. Paul's Inside the Walls. Yeah and um uh happy to have our guests with us today. So and and again, thanks for filling in for Jay. And uh you have you'll be part of this conversation because uh what we'll be discussing today is something you've been involved with for many, many years.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

Yeah. Before we uh launch into our our scheduled topic, is there anything big happening that you think we ought to know about? Anything on the horizon or anything that you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I'm not sure when this will be aired. We're taping on April 28th, and uh this coming uh Saturday we'll have our Guardian masks, uh, which is a combination of what was the blue mask for police officers and red mask for firefighters, and uh we're including, I think, all first responders, and so red, white, and blue. There we go. Right, that's right. And uh speaking maybe of the white part, uh, I was at um St. Joseph's uh hospital medical center in Patterson um yesterday for Memorial Mass for Sister Jean, Frances Brady. Your other co-host um on Coffee with Kopke uh was a great help to me. Sister Jean was, I think she ran St. Joseph's Hospital for like 40 years. And Monsignor Kopke shared how there were three sisters that um I went to look in his book, uh Living Stones. Yeah, but uh sister uh Sister Jane Frances, who um passed away at the end of January. Um she was still working in the late 80s when he was writing the book. So uh I think he's talked about not liking to write about people who are still alive. He can get in trouble. He wrote about it too, but what an incredible I face. She also worked with Eva's Village and has um in the court system with um children that had to be taken out of home and Morris and Sussex County. Um and you know to see that thank God St. Joseph's is still there and Patterson serving the underserved and the poor and um just a blessing for the city and um Sister Charity still involved, and um the new president um uh Dustin Riccio is doing a great job, and they have their uh campus in Wayne now as well. Um, but um that was a a blessing to be there for that.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

Yeah, one of the one of the uh giants of the women religious who have served St. Joseph's yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Um so you're gonna lead us in a prayer, thank you. Sure. Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_06 3:02

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, during this Easter season, we give you thanks for the gift of Jesus, your son, for his resurrection, for the new life he brings, for the season of hope, uh for a lifetime of hope that he inaugurates with his resurrection. We ask you to help us to be open to his coming spirit so that we may continue to serve in his name, to build your kingdom, uh, to do his will and to love one another, and most especially to form missionary disciples after his own heart. And we make this prayer through Christ our Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. So, Bishop Kevin, you are the one I think who suggested this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Uh uh So as Bishop, I'm privileged to serve on the as on the Board of Regents for Seton Hall and more recently on the um Board of Overseers, I guess, for the seminary uh uh McLean Conception Seminary at Seton Hall and in the Archdiocese of Newark, but you're on the faculty, and uh many of our priests, uh Father Pavel Tomchek is uh on the faculty, and um uh so thank God the seminary faculty and those who um serve uh in formation um of our young men discerning and being preparing for priestly ordination. Um that's such an important service in the church, but also um uh here at St. Paul's and in conjunction with Seton Hall, uh the formation that happens uh for uh those who live um any vocation, single life, married life, uh priesthood or consecrated religious life, and especially formation for our lay leaders uh in the spirit of synodality and even Pope Leon these days. I think it is Wednesday audiences uh reminding us of some of the documents of the Second Vatican Council and uh the reminder of that uh um call from baptism that that vocation that we all share. So uh uh Diane at uh um uh that recent meeting you talked about conversation I think with Eddie, Eddie about about uh a potential podcast. Uh and I said, Oh, wouldn't and learning as we learn about this certificate program uh that um uh you each have been involved in, uh, I said that's something that we need to uh talk about, right? So uh and promote. So so grateful that you could be available.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

So Dr. Diane Trafflet is well known to St. Paul Inside the Walls. She's the Associate Dean for the School of Theology at Immaculate Conception Seminary at Seton Hall University. I think I got that right. Yeah, and uh Annie Hansberger is our director of the Office of Family Life here at the Diocese, but we're gonna talk today about the certificate in Catholic evangelization. Annie is a graduate quite some time ago now, sorry, uh of the CCE. And Dr. Traffitt and I uh were kind of at the ground floor. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 6:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 6:06

So I was trying to remember whose idea this was. Well, well, let me just say it began as a a non-credit, non-academic certificate under Monsignor Silva, and when I got here, the first cohort had gone through the first year. They had two more years to go, and in those two years, somehow we s came into cooperation. Do you I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Those were wonderful meetings. Well, first, thank you so much for this invitation. Um, but our conversations during that time period were so uplifting, and I just felt this creative energy and and excitement about what could be. And and sure enough, you know, Annie was one of my students, and what an inspiration that was. But you started off as non-credit uh through St. Paul Inside the Walls, and interestingly enough, uh Seton Hall was considering also doing a Catholic evangelization program.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So we talked to the Diocese of Patterson and they said, well, let's see how this works first, and then after the first year, let's come together again and see if we could collaborate. So uh and in the meantime, let's see if we could um borrow some of your professors. So I was privileged to teach in that first cohort, um, and there were a lot of people there, but they did not want to do it, most of them didn't want to do it for credit.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Right. Do we know what year that was?

SPEAKER_06 7:30

So it would have been 2011 would have been the start of the first cohort, and that went to 2014. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

And for how long have you been on the faculty of at Signal?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

26 years. Wow. Yeah, and two months. Over over a quarter of a century. So I teach spirituality, and that's been again something really beautiful that we were talking about as we were redesigning the program. And we said, you know, we really should start with prayer, spirituality, spiritual theology, and then eventually move into courses on evangelization. Some people I think were very antsy to let's get started with the colours. Yeah, yeah, the nuts and bolts of the nuts and bolts of evangelization. And instead, you know what, we're gonna start with prayer. You have to be people of prayer first before you can try to evangelize, and then go into the Bible. So biblical call narratives came next. So we tried this, you know, how how would this work and how would one class build upon the next until you get to the end on really practical evangelization? Yeah. And it's working. And and the students are just absolutely wonderful.

SPEAKER_06 8:41

Well, we're gonna have some students in the in the next segment, and I don't want to steal anybody's thunder, but uh Anna Maria said to us, We're are the courses we have now the same courses? And I think the program was designed so effectively that we've never had to change the the actual six courses. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Yeah. I still talk about the courses till this day. I was um reminiscing with some people who are interested in starting the certificate for next year, and I said the first class, it was so instrumental in the foundation of the whole experience. The it was almost like going on retreat, right? So for that to be an in an academic setting and for you to feel like I'm growing as a person, it I mean, it was just so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Anyway, you already were working for the diocese when you started the cohort.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

I was maybe just a year in. So I first started working for the diocese in 2013, and I believe the cohort started it in 2014, and I was like, I don't think I'm ready just yet. And then a year had gone by, and it was this right before the summer was about to start, and I just like all of a sudden it hit me. I'm like, you need to be doing this. And so I remember I think I called up maybe it was maybe you at the I I forget, but I was just like, is it too like it started and I don't think I can wait two more years. I'm like on fire now, I'm ready. And they was like, guess what? They're starting a summer cohort.

SPEAKER_06 10:15

Because we did have some people that wanted to jump on board.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

So I just knew it was meant to be. I was like, I asked and it happened.

SPEAKER_06 10:23

And so in our three-year program, people will get 18 credits toward a master's degree, which Annie did, but then she went ahead and got the the other 18 to have her master's in the certificate in Catholic evangelization, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Correct. So uh that word evangelization, you know, some of us uh are using it all and hear it all the time. But that's true. I wonder if there's some listeners or others that, yeah, they hear the word hopefully. Um uh but just to think of um as you were talking, Dr. Trufflet, I was just thinking uh um in the seminary, I'm sure we heard it. Um uh I remember as uh recently a newly ordained priest, real well, three years in. Uh I was ordained in 97, so in 2000, there was um preparing for the that jubilee and the and a millennium, the Diocese of Brooklyn did an evangelization program, disciples of Mission, that would uh three and and uh the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II at the time, uh had those three years on the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I think that but um then I remember probably hearing about it at the time, but you know, in I think it was 1992 when Pope John Paul II went to the Dominican Republic to uh remember 500 years of Christianity coming to the so-called new world of the Americas. Uh and um and he talked about the new evangelization, right? And um new methods, new energy. And certainly Bishop Saratelli, when Bishop DiMarzio came to Brooklyn in 2004, around the same time Bishop Saratelli, Bishop DiMarzio talked about his priorities being vocations and evangelization or the new evangelization. Um so um uh again, uh different Catholics uh are familiar with that word, some more so than others, but um, it's certainly been a priority here in our diocese. Um certainly Bishop Saratelli made the new evangelization that that led to the creation of this evangelization center. And I'm thinking um, yes, we have a center. Okay, now what are we gonna do, right? And it sounds like um uh and and we want to equip our um uh parishioners and and parish leaders and others uh to uh uh understand how we evangelize, right? So uh maybe to talk a little bit about um how the certificate program specifically looks to equip or inspire um uh students to uh be part of the evangelizing mission of the church, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Um I would just say one thing that I I I want to make uh I want to emphasize. Uh one of the major things that we need to learn about evangelization is that we're not Lone Rangers. Right, right. And so sometimes we team taught classes, sometimes um we encouraged friendships. And each class, because they go through as cohorts, each class was uh enabled a friendship to grow or multiple friendships to grow. People at the end of three years are crying because they're they're missed they're afraid they're gonna miss their friends. But I thought that actually is precisely what evangelization is about. How do you work well with others? How do you grow in relationship? You're not Lone Rangers. So that's like foundational too.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Easter time, I love that we read throughout almost the 50 days uh from the Acts of the Apostles, and I love the phrase in the Acts of the Apostles describing the church as the community of believers, right? Right. So Jesus called us into community, and and that's they started evangelizing from then, right? From Pentecost. But how did he do it? By building communities, right? By building friendships and relationships, and it sounds like that's been part of um this.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

And and really deliberately so, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

How was that how was it for you when you think back to you already described about the relationships, right? And some and and and the memories that you have.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Absolutely. I honestly was like being in a family, you know, it's three years every once a week, and everyone was excited to be there, right? We were all in the same now, it was a mixed bag. That like I'm gonna be real. Everyone was coming from different places and different experiences, but the fact that we were all gathering under this one mission of what does it mean to evangelize? What does it mean? You know, I think everyone also came in with like what their own notions of what that was, and so to be able to understand that, you know, whether you're working at in the church, whether you're working in business, whether you're just trying to talk to your kids, yes, that you know, we're all it it takes we're all doing the same work to you know to appeal to those.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

And I think we've seen uh some numbers uh you think of the focus on evangelization and hearing now uh at at the Easter Vigil during the Easter season the large the increase in uh in in adults entering the church, right? I mean that's a result of evangelization, right? Because uh so um uh and uh now there's a um a cohort um just about to finish and uh create some opportunities for those who are looking who might hear this and be interested, right?

SPEAKER_06 15:29

Correct. So any, in addition to directing our office of family life, is also also coordinates the certificate program for St. Paul Inside the Walls. So Annie, the window is open, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:40

The window is open and we are ready.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

So um Yeah, we are getting uh inquiries already, and we're just beginning to advertise. So uh the word is out there. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

And a potential student or someone who might sign up to or is I'm sure they could get information online at the website. And um, but uh uh anybody, um uh uh uh parents, uh ministers, uh uh volunteers in parishes, uh young adults for pushing some of our young adults.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

All of the above. Yes. And then it's a matter of do you want to do it for credit or not, because some people in class decide, no, uh, you know, the four credit option isn't for them. Um but if it's four credit, they also have to have an interview with me. And uh they have to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_06 16:28

I call it a conversation. I mean it's kind of a nice conversation, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want people to be uh scared of the interview. That's true, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Well it's it's it's really beautiful because no matter where you're at, you you will find a place. And so I had the opportunity to talk with some of the gradu uh soon-to-be graduates, and um a lot of them were, you know, I haven't been in school in 30 years, I haven't been in an academic setting in so long, I was nervous, but yet they found this.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

How many are in this cohort that is graduating?

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Great question. Twelve. Yeah, exactly. So I know you'll have uh two of them on um in the next um segment.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Segment.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

So they'll be able to give you some more insight into their experience.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

And I believe it's not only theoretical, it's practical, right? Because uh there's an encouragement to have an idea of when you're especially as you're moving towards completion, how is this going to be put into practice in some sort of ministry, I would guess, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:33

Well, in in the academic circles, they call the last course an integration seminar. We call it practicing evangelization. And as a part of that course, each of the members of the cohort needs to come up with a an evangelization project that they develop and then present. And it could be something at the local level, something at the parish, something at the diocese, something uh in the broader world. Do you remember what your project was?

SPEAKER_03 18:41

It was on marriage preparation. Oh, and I'm doing it. I'm running it.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

I'm glad that you mentioned that the interview isn't scary. Because some people meet with me and then they said, Was that so when we do the interview? I was like, that was the interview. And what I find with these meetings is I am so inspired by people saying, I want to spread the good news. Uh I want to be part of the growth of the church and I want as I grow in my own faith. And that's so so powerful to me that that that they want to do that. And then with regard to getting uh credit for this, you're right. You can go for a master's in theology afterwards, a master's in pastoral ministry, and about 90% of our graduates, our certificate students, go on for their master's degree.

SPEAKER_06 19:27

Yeah. And we have a number of our young adults who uh because of their involvement in our young adult ministry decided to go for the certificate. I I think of your class, like uh so many of the the members of your class ended up uh two of them are are working at the seminary, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Liz. Yeah, Liz Vacchiano.

SPEAKER_06 19:49

Uh and um she's from Sussex County, young.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Oh, Alyssa. Yeah, Alyssa. Alyssa, yes, we have two two people and uh and absolutely committed to their faith, love their faith. I remember them in class. I think you wouldn't be nice to work with them too. And also you. Yeah, yeah. And I have to say coming onto this campus is just naturally uplifting. Yeah. Um having the chapel downstairs that that the students do make use of. Sometimes there's mass, sometimes they just come earlier to pray, uh, sometimes they stop by on their way out after mass, after class. It's just uh it's just such a spot here.

SPEAKER_06 20:34

That was sorry, that was Bishop uh Saratelli's conviction that beauty evangelizes as surely as truth and goodness, and so we needed to create the beautiful space.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yes, yes, yes. And uh just as um the the students are encouraged to be in relationship and have those friendships, um uh institutions uh or uh part of the church's structure that um uh we can work together the the the the relationship between uh both uh the center here and our staff and um the University of Seton Hall and the seminary um is really I can see uh such a great blessing to see how um there's so much uh interchange and and and shared resources and uh and and and collaboration that I think is a real blessing.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, the collaboration has been uh a real blessing and inspiration and and more than a collaboration, a real friendship.

SPEAKER_06 21:29

Yeah, for sure. I I think for me, the creation of this program was probably one of the most uh satisfying uh things that uh I've been involved in here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

And uh just to finish on that, maybe uh uh so uh it was started under Monsignor Silva, and you arrived, uh it was one year into the cohort, and you were saying it was non-credit, uh, and that's when And it was really it was really focused on parish leaders, it it was um probably not as academic in in its focus.

SPEAKER_06 22:05

And I think I don't remember who initiated the conversation, if if it was the seminary was it the seminary? And it was you and Father Joe Chappell.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Right. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 22:15

And we we started to um think about how we could step it up kind of. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

With the the intention of, okay, this is not just or only uh a retreat. It's it's going to be an academic retreat to begin with. Okay. And then we'll move into um scripture thing. They're they're taught by Bishop Saratelli first. Oh yes, right. And along with someone else, one time uh Your husband worked with him, I think. Brian Huntsberg. Brian Hunsberger and again that modeled good evangelization too to team to teach, of course. But um when we were deciding to do it with with uh this academic credits, um we realized that people do want to really delve deeply. Some people really want it. Do I do I get something out of this more than just inspiration for me, but also um really feeding my faith and feeding my soul.

SPEAKER_06 23:10

And uh so it's rooted in spirituality first, yes, scripture, Old and New Testament, yeah, um church documents, especially on evangelization, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

And and I'd say uh I I mentioned parables of Jesus, but also biblical call narratives, which I think is really important. That's their second class. You know, how were people in the Bible called? What was their response? How are you called? What is your response?

SPEAKER_02 23:40

And how the Holy Spirit uh continues to guide us, even just thinking uh uh from the Second Vatican Council to St. Pope John Paul II, uh Pope Benedict to Pope Francis, all focused on evangelization, but uh a development as well, right? I mean, Pope Francis uh speaking of missionary disciples, right? In some sense, the certificate uh uh uh on on Catholic evangelization is training missionary disciples, I think, right? That that Pope Francis now Pope Leo uh are are calling us to be. And uh and and and and Pope Francis that you know everyone has a place at the table through the synodal process, right? And and uh the the certificate program um uh allows leaders to respond to a call who maybe not see themselves leaders right when they begin, but uh through that they can leave as leaders, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:29

No, absolutely. That is the I would say one of the major um points that everyone leaves with. It's like, oh, we we're called to part like really participate, right? And so um, and that's the beauty with ending with this final project. It's like okay, now you're going out, and what are you going to do? And so um yeah, it's um I I'm I'm just so grateful that I've had the opportunity to not just experience it, but now I get to actively share this and try and get people involved. Um so if people are interested, it's the the application is up on the website. It's really easy to go click on the link and I'll be in touch if you're and now's the time, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Because this is the first time.

SPEAKER_06 25:19

And I don't I don't want to get too bogged down on this, but but the diocese has a grant that will help people uh afford the course.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

So they're in the Patterson Diocese. Correct.

SPEAKER_06 25:33

Yeah, correct. Because Newark's is still catching up.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

And what's fascinating when I was teaching, there were young people in their 20s, and then there were people who had tons of experience in their 60s, and yet each each uh group um modeled evangelization, witness to it, and we everyone had such a great conversation.

SPEAKER_06 26:02

I should probably call time.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Right. Yeah, so thank you so much, Dr. Chafford, and thank you really uh um for sharing and all that you do for the church, and uh, and uh we hope and pray that um the cohorts will grow and uh continue to be a blessing for our dynasties and beyond.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Thank you. Thank you. God bless you.

SPEAKER_06 26:30

We are back with Bishop Kevin and two uh additional guests, Anna Maria Garcia and Patrick Dillon, both of whom are finishing up their certificate in Catholic evangelization as part of the three-year cohort that ends 2026 and began in 2023. So the CCE runs in three-year cohorts. So we'll be starting a new cohort in 2026, and that will run until 2029, and we're taking applications right now.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yes, and now's the time, otherwise you've got to wait three years. So probably uh up until uh July or August, there'll be still.

SPEAKER_06 27:14

Yeah, well I think I think uh if we have latecomers, Dr. Diane Trafflett helps us squeeze them under the wire. Great, great.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

It's important to be flexible. Uh so um uh I've gotten to know Anna Maria over these uh last few years. And um Pat, thanks for being with us uh from the Diocese of Metutcheon, right?

SPEAKER_07 27:35

Yeah, that's right. St. Matthias.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Um praying for um your administrator, uh Father Tom? Yeah, yes, and uh um pray you'll please God have a new bishop soon, right? Um but you're two of twelve from what we heard, right? Uh uh so maybe um Anna Marie, maybe you can begin. What when did you first hear about the certificate for Catholic evangelization and what led you to say God might be calling me to this?

SPEAKER_04 28:03

Yeah, so my my husband is ready. Um also works here on the diocese. He also works here, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Campus college, campus ministry, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Campus minister, yeah. And so he is he was be asked to do the CCE. Because when I was hired, Brian said, you know, we prefer to have our staff members to either go through yeah the CCE.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

And so I was like, so he was asked to go through the CCE, and then he kind of just mentioned it to me. I'm like, whatever you learn, tell me, because I want to know too. And then, you know, he's just doing it and he just kind of talking to me about it, and I was like, I kind of want to do it. But it was more a financial thing. I mean, we were we were engaged when we first started, so we weren't even married yet. Um and then it kind of just so happened, it was like God's plan that I was then later asked if I wanted to be the co-leader of the young adults, and then it kind of like worked out. So I I think it was like I was already planning, but then it was also recommended, so it was a bigger push.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

And all in God's time. Yeah, it really was. And uh uh the family has grown since uh you were married to Freddie, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Uh they have a little baby girl.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Mariana.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Mariana, how Marianna Paula.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

She's 13 months.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

13 months.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Did you catch the middle name?

SPEAKER_04 29:25

Paula. We named her Paula after after you know St. Paul and in thankfulness just because of everything.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

The wing for Father Manning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:37

Yeah, yeah. But one of the things I uh appreciate about Brian was Brian saying to anyone who came on staff here, you need to be schooled in evangelization because we're an evangelization center. So whether you work at the front desk or on the college campus, we want you to be trained in evangelization.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

When he was telling me at the time it was more so for being a co-leader, so I was part-time. I wasn't even full-time at the time. And then Chris, our other co-leader, had also gone through it. And it's just so happened that I think every time we have a new co-leader, the the registration kind of comes around. So Chris was going through it. Then when I was coming in, it was going.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

So uh we'll hear from Pat about how he first heard about the uh opportunity and and what led him to respond to the call. Uh and as Pat is sharing that with, we'll come back to Anna Marie then and um uh just well you could tell us a little bit about what the three years have been like, and I believe there's a project that you're working on at the moment, right? We'll come back to that. But Pat, uh maybe let us know uh um how you heard about it and yeah, well, uh, you know, as Anna Maria shared, it's all in God's timing.

SPEAKER_07 30:46

Um, quite frankly, uh Bishop, I had no idea where the Lord wanted me. Um I was a reject from the deaconate in Mituchen. I was like, I was gonna be a priest, father, I have two kids. Married two kids. Married two kids. And I don't always know it. Uh but the truth is a lot of times the Lord just drops things in my lap. And I have to, when I look back over my life, uh I'd say most of the major things in my life, that's exactly how they happened, even though I had this fucking plan. One door closes, God opens another, right? Was it uh we plan, got collapsed, or something. I forget the phrase. But yeah, so um, you know, I I uh Dr. Troutlet, uh, I'm sorry, I call her Diane. Um we we had a we had a plan too. So uh I was looking to graduate. Uh I was in systematics, I have it at MAT there. Um, and it suddenly occurs to me, oh my gosh, if I get into the diaconate program, I can't have two systematics in the same college, can I? And she's like, oh no. So we quit rearranged things and I ended up with uh ecclesiastical history, which would not have been my first choice, although I loved it, I have to say. But uh when I got the rejection letter, I have to admit, uh boy, did it hurt. It hurt. And I I read the first line like multiple times. I'm like, they don't want me. And I was, you know, when I first started out in the program, I was probably 50-50. You know, if early in the program they said, you know, you're not the guy, I'd be like, okay, great, thanks. I appreciate your time. And I would have been fine. But as I got closer, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is where the Lord wants me. So when the rejection came, it was it was tough. Um, I took a semester off, you know, I spent a lot of time in prayer. Um, I talked to Diane, and I was like, I I don't know where the Lord wants me. I have no idea. And she's like, Well, what do you like to do? Where do you think the Lord might want you? And I'm like, I don't know. But I've been enamored by um people that are apologists. Um, like what Freddie does. Freddie goes on college campuses, and I'm I'm enamored that he can do that. Like, I don't think I'm that guy. So I know I'll never be a true apologist. He starts by playing soccer. And then it helps. I don't play soccer. I'm very far too old and frail. But anyway, um she said, Well, you know what, we do some of that, you know, uh uh in this certificate program. She started telling me about it, and while she's talking, I'm of course on my laptop looking up the course list. I'm like, oh, okay. They all looked really good.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Had you heard of St. Paul's Inside the Walls in Madison at that time?

SPEAKER_07 33:21

I had, but only I didn't know much about it. Like I had seen advertisements for it, I had seen the CCE program advertised, but I really didn't um pay any attention to it. Um and the other reason I knew about it was the connection. So my wife and my sister-in-law went to school here when it was Bailey. Oh, Bailey L. Yeah. So what frustrates me is when I tell them about like the building, they're like not interested. I'm like, oh my goodness, yeah. It's gorgeous. But um, yeah, so uh that was really it. She she kind of encouraged me to say, you know, look, there's some classes here that might be of interest to you. I I agreed. So I'm figuring, all right, you know, it's just a certificate, I'll sign up. If it doesn't work out, I'll go somewhere else, I'll do something else. Maybe the Lord will drop something in my lap. But here I am, all set. And it's again kind of dropped in my lap, and I just consider it a blessing. You know, it wasn't on the radar, but I am blessed to have been here.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Uh we'll hear uh a little bit of Anna Marie's experience and her project, and then we can come back and Pat can tell us about what he's planning uh in this last final semester, right, as we move towards graduation.

SPEAKER_06 34:23

Well, actually, they're they're done with classes. Yeah, they're just finished. Yeah. And they just made presentations. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

So your project?

SPEAKER_04 34:32

So my project is I am still working on a title. Maybe I'll ask Father Paul. He's really good with titles. Um, but it's basically on uh doing an exegetical approach to the Sunday lectionary. Um and I want to, you know, try to do that here with our young adults. So I'm I'm getting a free promo here. It's kind of unfair. Um but I want to do it before mass and because I want to add on to the mass. I I think that not that the mass isn't enough, but we kind of, you know, we'll we'll schedule Bible studies outside on Wednesday, Tuesdays, and we're learning about scripture elsewhere. But I think a lot of the times when we're in mass, we it kind of goes over our head. Because I want to do it on on first and second first and second readings and the gospel and you know, maybe have like an hour and try to tie it in. Because I mean, especially for me as a young adult, I'm seeing so many people pick up their Bibles again and whether it's Christian or uh Christian or not no Catholics or or Christian. And I'm just seeing it become a bigger thing, and I just don't know if enough people are doing it exegetically, um reading what the author intended to do.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Bishop Barron uh just apparently gave a talk, I think at Notre Dame, on um on the evangelical um foundations of the Old Testament. Uh and the weekly podcast for Word on Fire is him interviewing about um, but uh if you get a chance, it's it's it's uh he he talks a lot about what um what you're speaking about in terms of our familiarity and and uh Catholics we still struggle to let uh our people know that uh we should be reading the Bible. Um I think we've made some progress, but uh we still have a ways to go. And uh but certainly um uh we have that familiarity at mass, uh, but you're saying uh allow give people an opportunity to not only pray with and read the readings before mass, but um have some insight. Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_06 36:34

And Anna Marie is prompting as coordinator for young adult ministry, uh well, she just scheduled uh a formation uh series, uh a formation evening with our young adults. What what did we call it again?

SPEAKER_04 36:46

It was you you called it the the low grade level title, but it was understanding the Bible, how it works, and how to read it. Yeah, you and then I think it was uh like scriptural analysis.

SPEAKER_06 37:00

Questioning the text, I think, or something. I can't remember. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

But yeah, I just think that it I think it's such an amazing thing. And and we're seeing a lot of Bible studies, and this is no hate to Bible studies, and even doing Bible study is it's amazing, you know. You're opening up God's word, spending time with Jesus. But I think we there has been a a little bit of an overcorrection and the shift where there's um a focus on more of a reflectionary basis of Bible study where people are like, What did this mean to me? Yeah, yeah, right. How does it aff what does it mean in your life right now? And God can definitely, you know, speak to you through that, but you know, I think it would be even more powerful if people were doing exegesis. Know what the right what the readings are saying, what God is intending to say. What the saints have said about the what was going on and then doing an exegesis.

SPEAKER_06 37:52

So letting the text speak for itself first before we read into it.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

And also hearing what others have said about the text, right? Yeah, yeah, right, right. Um, so uh uh Pat, your project.

SPEAKER_07 38:05

Sure, if you don't mind, I'd like to plug yours a little bit too. Um so I think you know when I heard Anna Maria's presentation, uh, I was like, yes, I'm very much in favor of what you're looking to do. You know, my wife and I, for years when we were first married, we ran a Bible study out of our home, and maybe we had a dozen members from our parish uh attend St. Virgil's. Uh so you know that one, right? Moore's Plains. Moore's Plains. Okay, so yeah. Is that Patterson? I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're ours. There we go. Woo! But uh, and I've I've been uh leading a small faith group that meets. Uh we've been meeting for we lost track, somewhere between 13 and 15 years. That's amazing we've been meeting, and we do what you say. We break open the word, but we don't get as hermeneutical as as I would like, right? We do a reflection. Uh some people like to write their own, they do research on it. Uh, some people find one. We had a phenomenal one uh for Good Shepherd Sunday that was very deep, and I don't recall who wrote it. My wife is the one who led that meeting. We start we started taking turns leading the meeting, which is great because as you know, like when you when you step up and you prepare for it, you learn more than anybody else. Like you, you're if if you care. You put all your heart and soul into it and you learn more. So I think that's really great, but I would love to go deeper. Uh so I think your project is is great. I think you're gonna do uh but what's your project? So mine is. So mine is like I said, I always remembered that those who can be, you know, apologetics, uh apologists. And I thought, well, maybe there's a way I could do something like that, you know. And I thought of this, um, you know, I'm a I'm a propeller head, right? So I thought of this idea. I was like, what if I was to create small video clips for social media? And they would be um spiritual in nature. That might be scripture, they might be a simple message, just some way to get evangelization out there beyond like my little circle, you know. And I thought I could learn this on my own, I could do it personally, I could do it through my parish. Uh, Father Tom is just starting to use social media. He will put clips of his um sermons online, and I've actually given him some advice, like, Father, you gotta sit further back in front of the camera. Yeah, little things like that. Um, but I thought, well, shoot, maybe I could do that with our parish. And then I thought, well, you know, the diocese could use a presence too. So I know we were supposed to think about one of those three. I'm thinking all of those. Yeah, good for you. Uh so if you I barely got it started, but if you're on Instagram or Facebook, I was able to secure the name the AI Apostle.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Oh my goodness. I'm completely there.

SPEAKER_07 40:44

I was like, okay, I'm the AI Apostle. I've only got one clip right now. Uh two, sorry, two. And I figured let me let me see how that goes. So again, the Lord dropping things in your lap, right? One of the things I always wanted to do more of in my own parish was to work with the youth. But I'm 65 years old, who wants me in the group, right? Well, it turns out they do. The kids seem to like me for whatever reason, and I've always wanted to get more involved. So I miss this one meeting. One meeting I miss. The kids are talking to the deacon who runs the program, and guess what? They want to do a weekend lock-in focused on using AI in social media. I'm like, wow. Oh my gosh. So now I'm like, I gotta get with these kids, see what they're thinking. Because all along, one of my ideas was get the kids' voice out there. Like, get their when I but I'm calling them kids, but they could be as old as 35. They're really young adults. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're young adults. Um, get their ideas. Like, what is it that they think, you know, what's what are the questions that they would like to talk about? What would they like to help develop? And have them help develop some of that, you know, content that we put out there. You know, maybe a minute or two clip. Nothing long, because people won't they won't sit through it.

SPEAKER_06 41:55

That's what we've moved to here, is like short clips. Reals, they call them. Reals, yes, exactly. I know. Well, she just told me.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

And uh for our viewers or listeners, uh uh an apologist uh is not necessarily someone who goes around saying they're sorry, right? Catholic apologetics is uh uh defending the faith, right? Yeah, I don't want to start. Answering questions uh you know, loving them. Right, right. Yeah, that sounds great.

SPEAKER_07 42:22

Uh I'm excited about it. And and again, one of those the Lord drops in your lap. Like I had a whole nother project in mind. One of my classmates thought it was a terrible idea. And I was like, um. So then I keep that I thought of this one, which um, some of the relationships uh Dr.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Chaffler was talking about uh in terms of the uh and maybe you can say a little bit about that uh an experience of community, right? That you've been together with a group of 12 yourselves and and 10 others, uh telling each other that's a terrible idea, right? Um so uh uh what and maybe some of the other projects that you heard about are uh um something that stood out in terms of um those other classmates that will be graduating with you, anything or anyone in particular that uh strikes you?

SPEAKER_07 43:06

There was one, uh I forgot who was doing it, maybe Cheryl. Um the post Cana. Oh, that's a gill. That's a gill. What a great idea, right? Like when you first get married, there's a few bumps, right? There's a couple bumps, learning to live with each other, and you know, some of the mechanics of living together. And um, boy, that'd be great to have a support system and some help to do that with like-minded people. I think hers is a great project.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Other classmates or uh things that you heard or people you met that uh were helpful.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

It's cool to see people's um personalities seep into it. We have someone, uh Janice, who loves gardening. Oh, and she wants to build a garden to help the poor, to feed the poor. Um, or my husband, I'll g I'll give him a free promo too. Uh he wants to do a Catholic social teaching certificate that somewhat models uh the certificate.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Anna Maria's husband, Freddie, is also the co-host of one of our other uh podcasts with Brian Osberg, right?

SPEAKER_06 44:09

Yeah, the Paul Street Journal.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Right, right.

SPEAKER_06 44:11

And they they've taken a little hiatus because there's been some changes, but we've got to get that back. Right. Yeah. Can I could I just ask Anna Marie, you were you were talking with me about every clas there there's over three years, a lot of material, a lot of information, but you had key takeaways for each of them. Do you want to just say a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_04 44:30

Yeah, I in reflecting over the last three years, I've noticed that every class for me, there was like one thing that stuck with me. And I don't know if I'll go through every single there there are six of them, but I don't know if I'll go through every single one of them. But for prayer, prayer, disciple, and community discipleship, that one for me, my biggest takeaway was that prayer isn't one-sided. And that's what it felt like for me. Prayer always felt like I'm trying to find my way to God, and he's just a little far. I'm I'm just I'm learning to speed up to get there, and that's just not the case. And and prayer in that class really taught me God is just running back right back to you and a lot faster. And so to me, it was this prayer was just opened up to me in such a different way. So that was a great, amazing foundation of a course. I loved that course. The the bibliography we had during that class was amazing. Um Biblical call narratives, as much as biblical call. Biblical call narratives, yeah. That one was by Brian Hans.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

When different individuals in the Bible were called by God, right? Uh and sent on a mission usually. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

You know, and like Father Paul said, there's so much you learn. But for some reason the thing that stuck with me wasn't necessar the the call part was important, but for me was the more the biblical part. Because I just remember that class breaking open scripture, and Brian had a circling and and highlighting, and I could still see that um he gave us this big piece of paper and we all had to break open Genesis. And I still remember I had Genesis 17, the circumcision. And I like you just had to like circle and you're the you know, what words are in the New Testament and words that are repeated, and we just totally broke it open. And so to me, that class really that came out to me, and then there's Father Paul's course, it was evangelizing church. No, church evangelization. Yeah, same thing. Evangelizing. We had an evangelizing church class. You know, that one was um just what stuck out to me was how much we're a missionary church. Um not that used to mean to me was okay, like you know, the people that go and they go to Africa, they go to Europe and and they go into their missionaries, but no, we're as an individual, we are all missionary disciples, and that the nature of the church is missionary. We're we're you know, we're on mission constantly.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

And so the church exit exists to evangelize, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Exactly. That is our nature.

SPEAKER_06 46:57

I don't want to embarrass Anna Maria, but her her uh growth and her capacity to articulate the faith and to to speak it is I've just seen the growth over the three years. Thank you. Thanks to the certificate.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

And now you're gonna uh put it into practice, right? Yeah, uh there's a graduation ceremony coming up, I believe.

SPEAKER_07 47:17

Yes, yeah, a couple weeks. We have mass Monday, right? There's mass Monday at the seminary, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

The fourth, I think.

SPEAKER_07 47:24

I think it's yeah, I think it's Monday. Yeah, looking forward to it. Um, if you guys don't mind, if I could it's you know, on top of all the stuff we're learning, and we learned a ton, you already had an MAT, so I had something to compare it to.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

We learned a ton, but one of the things that uh MAT Masters of Arts and Theology.

SPEAKER_07 47:41

Yes, yeah, thank you. Um just uh for that. I was thinking of a I have a Mac button. Right. Um not only uh have we learned a ton, but um what surprised me a lot about the whole certificate program is how much um we grew in our own spirituality. Like I wasn't expecting that. You know, I guess I was comparing it to you know the straight-up lectures that we would get in the past. Not that they weren't good because they were great. I mean, I loved all of them. In fact, I'm I am going on for my another master's after this. Um but when we would interact with each other and we'd learn from each other's um experiences um or each other's struggles, it really became like that faith community that you that you mentioned or you know, in the early days of the church. And um, I was surprised how much I grew spiritually. There were there's a couple of guys in that, a couple people in the class that have actually been really helpful to me on a spiritual level that you know I I really appreciated being able to have someone to talk to, you know, uh that could understand your situation and um empathize with you and just share with you. But again, I I you talked about prayer. You know, prayer is an area that I've struggled with my whole life. Uh to this day. I I'm I'm never I'm never satisfied with my prayer life. But you're right, we learned so much uh that helped us develop our own prayer life. Uh uh I I'm very grateful to this certificate, far beyond like credits or like what I'm supposed to do with it for my own selfish thing. It's been a it's been such a blessing. Yeah, it really has.

SPEAKER_06 49:14

Thank you. I'm conscious of time. So Bishop, is there anything else you want to uh uh share or or wrap up with?

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Uh we pray for all those uh um entering the church in these days. Uh yes, many at uh adults at um at the Easter Vigil, uh, but we have uh I'm blessed to have um or completing their initiation. Uh uh this wonderful time of year to celebrate confirmations and so um, but also a lot of first holy communions, right? That great moment uh in in families and for parishes and uh a sign of um the church church being alive and growing. Uh uh again, we're recording on April 28th. This coming Friday, the feast of um St. Joseph the Work on May 1st, and uh a week later it will be uh Pope Leo's first anniversary. Uh so it's amazing how the time goes by so quickly. But um, but uh you know I think again looking back to Bishop Saratelli and Monsignor Gino and uh how this uh evangelization center started and passing the baton on to yourself, Father Paul, and uh the team here that does such a great job. And again, thanking Dr. uh Trafford for being with us and for all that she brings and has shared and continues to. Um so um, and uh we have Joe and Jay behind the uh cameras there. I hope that's the show.

SPEAKER_06 50:30

I was thinking Pat's got to talk to Joe and Jay about the AI and social.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

That's right, that's right. So uh just uh wonderful time for the church, you know, and uh uh beautiful time of year, and um we give thanks uh for um Pat and Anna Maria be with us and uh for Dr. Triflet and any and and Father Paul, thanks uh for um you're doing it. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_07 50:52

Yeah, we give thanks for all of all of you. It's been amazing experience.

SPEAKER_06 50:57

Yeah. Can we have a blessing? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

We the Lord be with you and with your spirit. And may Almighty God bless you now and always, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Let us remain and go in the peace of Christ.

SPEAKER_06 51:11

Thanks be to God.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

See you next time in the next episode. God bless you.