SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast of the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. Join us for conversations about our Catholic faith, and together, let's strive to live a life of faith, hope, and love. We're so glad you can join us. With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney and our guests. Bishop, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I'm good, Jay. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

I'm doing well, thanks. Where the heck are we?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Grateful to the uh St. Elizabeth's University here in Convent Station, uh, who's hosting a big event tonight that we'll hear about and um uh happy to be back in this student wonderful studio that they have and uh and to be with our guests, who I think Jay is gonna introduce.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yeah, so starting all the way down at the end of the table is Chris Slipperini uh and to her left is Beth Lapsey. Um they are both uh experts in the area of mental health, so we're gonna have a conversation. Uh we're gonna explore the connection between faith, mental health, and science. I'll do the longer background in in a little while here, but why don't we uh start start with prayer? Start with a prayer, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Um well as as we begun uh we're taping we're recording this the day after Ash Wednesday as we've entered now into the holy season of Lent and we look to God's um grace and and blessings and uh and also um pray for healing uh for all in need of healing and and for those in ministry, um whether it be in as a priest or religious or as a teacher or as a counselor, um uh we know there's a need, uh, especially in our current context and culture and um for young people, for families, for couples, we might, as we pray, um remember those that might be struggling at this time and uh let them know that they're not alone and um and that that help is available so we can place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. And let us ask Jesus to bless us with the gifts and help of the Holy Spirit as we seek to know the Father's will and do the Father's will. And as we ask the gifts and guidance of the Holy Spirit, we also ask the help and intercession of Mary, our blessed mother, as we pray. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Our Lady's seat of wisdom, Mother of the Church, pray for us. St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, pray for us. All holy men and women, pray for us in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Okay. Thanks, Bishop. So uh Yeah, so our topic for today is we are so we're facing a mental health crisis with rising distress and illness, especially among the youth. So in this episode, like I said, we're going to explore the connection between faith, mental health, and science and reflect on what is driving this epidemic and how we can support those affected. So again, our so Beth Beth Lapsey to your right, Bishop, is program director of the Fiat program.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Just drive uh off the plane, right for the right.

SPEAKER_05 3:25

Great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

You made it. She's the uh program director for the Fiat program of faith and mental health at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. She's in town to give a lecture tonight here at St. Elizabeth University. This the lecture explores how faith and science together illuminate the causes of mental illness and guide us in caring for ourselves and others. Chris Lipperini, Dr. Lipperini, is assistant professor of psychology and doctoral program director here at St. Elizabeth University. She's been in this role since 2022. Prior to that, she spent 15 years teaching at Seton Hall University in the Department of Professional Psychology and Family Therapy. During her time there, she developed the relationships with several area nonprofits so that students could engage in social justice work with underserved populations. She has a clinical background in adolescent and young adult mental health. So there you have it.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. We were talking a little bit before, and I forgot to ask, but we were reminded by Jay, I don't want to put you on the spot, but uh four years of the program Fiat. Um do you know how they came about choosing the name Fiat?

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Well, thanks be to God, I do, Bishop. Um really Our Lady put it on our heart, and we were discerning at the McGrath Institute because the Lord had really invited us to do more by way of support for the church in the area of mental health. And Notre Dame, our Lady's University, uh, it it came upon our heart that it was meant to be called fiat. So, Gospel of Luke, when the angel Gabriel comes to Mary and says that she's to conceive and bear a son who is Christ, um, she proclaims, May it be done unto me according to your will. Um, fiat, Mihi, is the Latin. And as we were pondering, why are we meant to be called fiat? I think the Lord revealed it's each one of us is called to echo Mary, Mary's fiat. Each one of us is called to say yes, to receive the body of Christ, and that's our neighbor here on earth.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Right, right. And I think uh Mother Teresa might have put it in the terms uh to give God permission, right? To to to to dwell within us and and do what God wants to do for us, which is give us full lives, right? And as you say, bring his son to us especially. Um, but um uh I think it's St. Augustine, we're all quoting St. Augustine these days, right? After Saint Pop Leo, but uh I'm pretty sure it's St. Augustine, I I think it might be even the office of readings for um uh uh Easter Saturday or for the Annunciation, one of them. Um there's a point where St. Augustine talks about like Adam and all of humanity waiting for Mary to say, because there's that moment, right, where uh she says, How can it be done to me? And and and it'll be by the Holy Spirit, and you'll conceive, and um uh and then but God isn't gonna force her to she God waits for Mary's yes, right? And uh and and Augustine says, I think everybody in the whole world has got just this image, and then once Mary says yes, the word became flesh uh and dwelt among us. Um but um uh we're talking beforehand, uh those of us who um you know are open to being God's instrument, especially for healing and the world and some of the challenges that we and our young people and others face, um uh to be able to say, I could use some help, or say, yes, uh I I I I'm struggling. Um uh uh I'm not sure if that yes is that's part of uh uh um uh the the the fiat um uh uh um uh way that you're but maybe just tell us a little bit about you were there since the beginning, right? Uh and and and so maybe just share a little bit of of the genesis and and and what came how it came about.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Absolutely. And you know, Bishop, one of the things that you named is that it's a yes also to recognizing our own need, our own vulnerability. And it reminds me back in 2018, actually, the California Conference of Catholic Bishops put out a beautiful letter about just responding to and walking with those with mental illness, and they said we've gotta overcome an us versus them mentality because mental illness actually points to our universal vulnerability. Now, not everyone's gonna have mental illness, right? But as people we're vulnerable to disease and distress in this life of mental, spiritual, and physical forms, and in order to really walk with someone else who might be struggling from mental illness, we need to reckon with our own vulnerability that that we're not immune to the possibility of a mental health challenge in this life, even though it's not going to manifest like everyone else's. So I think that kind of helped us as we were discerning what the program was called to do. The McGrath Institute for uh Church Life, which is like our home within a home at the university, has been um striving to form ministers within the church for over 25 years. And as we said, okay, we need to do more in this space, we were recognizing that so many within our churches nowadays are suffering from mental illness or maybe a more transient passing mental illness.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Uh those who are offering assistance these days um are gonna be very busy, right? Because uh and we talked about even the experience of compassion fatigue, right, Chris? I think you mentioned that. Um maybe you're uh um uh how long here at the you know at St. Elizabeth's again?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

This is my fourth year.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Right, and um before that at Seton Hall. Um uh maybe your experience both clinically uh offering counseling and in your work here, especially uh maybe uh what's the what what's the environment out there we hear it spoken about, but maybe some uh practical experience of that, and then also um the the conversations that are happening in your department and in the university here, and maybe how it led to uh in inviting um uh Beth to uh to to come and and and and speak tonight. Maybe you could just share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Sure. I I think in my work over the past 20 years, uh noticed the increasing needs of clients. And along with that, seeing the increasing struggles of providers. Our students too are not immune to struggles themselves. So for us, it's in my role, really this balance, making sure that they're able to serve and provide services, but also taking care of themselves. And one of the things I talk to our students about is the four years you're with us, we really want to train you to be able to take care of yourself so you can be sustained in this work long term. That it's it's no good if you emerge in four years already burned out. Um and the the rate of burnout in psychologists.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Do you see that amongst your students currently?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Yeah, yeah. So I mean they're doing really difficult work. I I'm in awe of the clinical settings they're in compared to when I was a student. So our students are working with 9-11 first responders, they're working with refugee populations that are really under-resourced. So to do that work while you're still developing your skills and to also manage your own life stressors, uh it's staggering.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

And we and we haven't yet mentioned uh social media or or or uh screen timeline.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Even without that, just life. Um and the reality is our students come to us with their own needs and their own mental health histories, um, myself included. So also it's really important, I think, for me as a provider and as an instructor, teacher, and leader to be transparent that we are ourselves struggling and figuring things out. Um, and I think that allows them to be more open and to approach us about what they need.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

So, Chris, you mentioned the word stress. So I wonder if that might transition us into maybe where mental health uh illness or however you term it, or how do you term it and where where it originates from, what are the components?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Oh, simple question, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:28

I'm happy to volley that and then hand it over. Sure. You know, one of the things that as people we try to get to more simpler answers. We we want it to be concrete, and and mental illness is not. And I like to remind folks that like it mental illness results from a coming together of different factors. Factors that are genetic, so I inherit them genetically, factors that are biological, so just like unique to my own biology as me versus you.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That we have all the chemical makeup, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah, we are creatures in that sense. Um there are also factors, like as you alluded to, Chris, that are developmental and environmental. So, like my own developmental journey, difficulties in my family of upbringing are gonna contribute to a vulnerability to mental illness, and then environmental factors, and this isn't just natural environment like natural disaster, this is the role of technology in our life.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

The anxious generation, right? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Jonathan Hayes' work, The Anxious Generation, which points to a drastic correlation that we see between the rise of social media with the iPhone and the rise of health concern. Yeah, and I I teach classes with a neuroscientist at Notre Dame, and we talk a lot about the mind and neuroscience. And she says, you know, we can understand from a neurobiology of the mind that as people we are social creatures and we need 3D interpersonal relationships, and our basic need for that is just not being met how we live day to day, given the the proliferation of technology in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Virtual doesn't work, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:13

The virtual, it doesn't meet those basic neurobiological.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Allow us to have meetings and uh you know do other things, but but on the deepest human levels where we have needs, right? Uh when uh we're created in God's image, God is a trinity, right? A person. So we're created to be in relation. Similar experience, Chris, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, I I think one of the drivers for some of the mental health concerns we're seeing with social media is this uh idea of social comparison. So when we see these images, when we see people, we're often comparing up. So we're looking at people who have more, or we perceive them as having more, being better, fitter, more popular, rather than comparing down. So we're always comparing up and falling short. And if you already have a vulnerability, that can trigger even more difficulties.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Some of the uh images on Instagram, right? Everybody's uh and that young people are seeing everybody, well, I gotta be like that. They're the happiest life in the world, right? And looks perfect, and uh, how come I'm not right?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Uh the key is it looks, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Right, right, right. Um, you're gonna be speaking tonight about uh faith in science, and uh um we think of um the church and and the medical profession or the scientific community. Uh not the best history in recent times, but maybe there's some uh and and coming to my mind is is Bishop Barron, who I'm a fan of who I think, and he was part of a committee at the USCCB uh that presented uh about two years ago uh on some of the mental health challenges, and he said before what was gonna be a 15-minute presentation with some question and answers ended up being an hour or an hour and a half of um bishop after bishop coming up saying that these challenges were happening. And from that conversation, the USCCB encouraged local bishops to reach out to educators and mental health professionals and see, and that's gonna lead to our conference that we're having that you're gonna be back in New Jersey for uh on the state level. Um, but maybe uh a little bit about what you're gonna give us a little preview. This is gonna come out after the uh, but what what you'll be speaking about tonight in terms of faith and science, and maybe then Chris, how the university came to choose the the topic to and the to make the invitation.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

Sure. Absolutely. Um gosh, uh sometimes as fo as people we can get into these either or patterns of thinking, right? And it's oh well, mental health, that's something that I just need to address through mental health resources, seeking out a therapist. And others say, well, gosh, if I'm really a person of faith, I shouldn't be having this struggle. And they might think, you know, maybe this is resulting because I'm not praying enough, or because of the fallenness of my nature. Well, indeed, mental health, mental illness itself exists because we are fallen creatures. That's why disease and death enter into the world.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

That's how God created us, but a little thing called sin happened, and here we are.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

Exactly. But my mental illness or someone's mental illness, it's not a direct result or consequence of their own sin. We gotta overcome that hurdle. And and then so too, like the way we can help another who's living with mental illness, or the way we can help ourselves, is actually through this integration of mental health resources that are founded in good science and through our faith and through faith communities. So, one of the things I'm gonna talk about tonight is that we're relational creatures. You said, you know, to be made in God's image and likeness is to be made in the image of and likeness of God who is love, Trinitarian one and three persons, and and we need one another. And so we say, certainly, like good mental health resources, it's good to seek them out and to and to question it, you know, are these compatible with my faith? Because mental health resources, they're they're varied. Um but then when we're thinking about what can a faith community do, I think we can offer certain things that that the mental health community alone cannot, and that we're called to be a living, concrete, embodied hope, uh a presence of hope to one another. And and sometimes that looks like just reaching out and and sharing with someone and saying, you know, I notice it looks like you might be struggling. I'm here not to provide a quick fix, a solution, or an answer, but to be a presence and to just walk with you as you sort through the answers, as you try different things out. Because you've probably been thinking about this longer than I have. You've been thinking about trying certain things and why those things don't work. So I can walk with you and ask what that journey's been like, and ask what else you're maybe thinking about trying out, another resource, another point of reaching out, and what the barriers are, you know. Suffering, I think, just the nature of suffering, especially mental health suffering, feels so isolated. But we believe in God who becomes man in order to draw near to us so that we don't suffer alone.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

And to tell us we're not alone. To tell us we're not alone.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

So we're called to imitate that presence and how we draw near to each other.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

And Chris, you um through some uh group therapy, right? We were talking before.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Right. Maybe you want to chime in on the uh communal aspect or the sure and I think that even plays into why Beth is here and her work of the power of being with people that share struggles. It's healing to look around a room and realize you are not alone. Um that you share these concerns and the respect you have for other people there, I think mental health concerns can really be isolating and it becomes perpetuating. The more you isolate, the harder it is to connect. So even tonight, to have a room full of people come together on this topic, uh, I think we talked about social media. I think coming together physically for something like this also communicates that this community cares. This is a place where we can talk about struggle, we can talk about mental health concerns, there's not a stigma. And what I really like about the work that you're bringing here is we can't separate the spiritual part of someone from the rest of them when we talk about healing. And as psychologists, and we work a lot with our other programs here of health service professions, that we really need to consider the whole person, and that includes their spiritual self and really making that a focus of treatment. If that is healing to them, then that's where we lean in.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

And my hope is that my sense is I don't have the data, but um, that on the side of the mental health community, the the medical, professional, uh, even psychological side and the and the profession, has there been some movement towards uh an openness towards the person as a person of faith? Because I I think on the church's side we have our you know past, and uh maybe we weren't always encouraging somebody to speak to a counselor or, you know, respectful of the the the scientific profession on that side, but I go even thinking back to my own training in the seminary, and you know, we were always encouraged to speak to a counselor that as a priest, yeah, there are people gonna be coming, but you have to know when you need to refer, and and and that as a parish priest, you should have some uh mental health professionals that you you can refer to. I remember my experience as as a parish priest sometimes saying, I want to make sure I'm gonna refer to a counselor that will not dismiss religion, because I I again I think that might be something from a few decades ago, but uh I don't know if my but but is there a movement on the on the scientific medical side to say that we don't just dismiss religion?

SPEAKER_04 21:55

You know, I'm so glad you bring this up, Bishop Kevin, because there's still a pretty wide diversity in the field, and and Chris, you can kind of chime in too. I think you've got a great sense of this. But there there is still a skepticism among certain providers, um, and then among other providers, they really recognize no, a person's faith is prayer can help, it is like an orienting, integrating force within the person, and it would be um right.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

And if you mention it it can't be just prayer for you know for some uh obviously, and and I think the church and we're we're trying as I think ministers to say to our parishioners, yes, prayer can help, but uh God is also offering help in through the instruments of of of good counselor, right?

SPEAKER_04 22:39

Yeah, yeah. You know, I I w accompanied this amazing leader who's out in the California area and runs an incredible ministry at her parish where it's a prayer prayer and faith-sharing support group for those living with mental illness for family members with mental illness. And she said to me, you know, as I was thinking about the own journey of our family, I had this vision of kind of an anecdotal, a flood is coming. And she's in a Spanish-speaking community, and somebody comes as the flood is on the rise in a boat, and they say, Can I offer any help? And she goes, Oh no, no. Dios me sale, you know, like I've got it, God is here for me. The floods rising, and then somebody else comes in a helicopter. Hey, can I help you out? Oh no, no, you know, got God's got me. And then eventually, like the floods are rising and and she's consumed, and God says, You know, I offered help. Why didn't you come? I think they're both in the helicopter. I came to realize that there's this compatibility with mental health resources, and certainly I continue to pray, pray, and seek out the support of our faith community, but also like it's good to be on the lookout and to seek out a good mental health provider who's gonna honor my faith and provide that support as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

We still have growing to do as a profession. Uh I I appreciate that we're trying to grow, and part of that is you will see counselors identifying as a a Christian counselor or a Catholic counselor. So it's not it's not something that you need to bury, of we are we are not a blank slate. And for some clients, that's that's gonna get them in the door. That's gonna start a relationship that's important to them, and the relationship is everything. If there's no therapeutic relationship, the work really can't be done. So if that's important, you can identify as whatever your your faith tradition is for clients, but I I think beyond that as a profession, there is a shift where now we're talking about liberation psychology and other movements of we need to we need to get out of this idea of how we do therapy and what is best, and we need to think about from the client's perspective what has been healing for them. And that includes maybe spiritual practices, their faith community, and that includes us getting out of our office and meeting with the faith community and leaders about what are you what are you seeing? How what do you need to know that we can help with and meeting people literally where they are.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

So when we talk about mental health illness, what what are we talking about exactly? Like what are some examples of something people struggle with?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

I I think we're seeing a lot of anxiety and depression, and we could nitpick about is it anxiety, is it depression, because there is also overlap between those. I think we're seeing a lot of collective trauma. COVID is recognized as a collective trauma for everyone who experienced it. So we're seeing anxiety, we're seeing depression. Uh we are seeing our young people in the schools coming up with attentional challenges, uh, schools not knowing how to manage that, not having the resources early on, which sets those children on a trajectory of maybe not getting the services they need. Uh so I think anxiety and depression, uh, hand in hand with that substance abuse, sometimes uh people are self-medicating, and so that's something we look at, and these can exist together. So it can be a really complicated clinical picture of more than one thing going on and a lot of grief. A lot of grief, and whether we want to pathologize that or not, grief is a very human, shared experience that can lead to a lot of difficulty in connecting and functioning.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Sadly, in in some of our immigrant communities, I think we're gonna be dealing with um some of the fallout from you know this recent times that just um uh children worried if their parent is gonna come home or um some families we've experienced in other places having to stay inside because they're afraid to go outside. Um uh and you know, unfortunately, I think that's something we're gonna have to be dealing with in the years to come because it's it's still a lived reality for some, and hopefully things will get better. But um, but uh I I think also that um uh uh we say culturally, right? Um uh I mean um uh the the effect of uh our screen time and and how social media has affected what our young people are experiencing. Um but also I think uh I know at uh here at St. East uh you would serve a lot of um uh children of immigrants or um uh those who come from, and I'm sure uh you the your your institute is working with ministers from different parts of the country, right? And uh and and how to sometimes translate not only in terms of language but in terms of lived experience, um what some of those um and and living in so many diverse communities here in our country and ministering in those um w um uh again uh looking back to my experience uh to find a a good counselor who was Spanish speaking was was sometimes a challenge, but uh maybe you can talk about maybe some of the the students and and their experiences or and some of the um uh uh with faith and science uh uh in a in a multicultural, multi-ethnic experience.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Uh yeah, and just thanks for the chance to kind of attend to each person, because I think when we talk in terms of mental health, mental health and mental illness, we can talk in terms of general categories, but every person's experience is unique. And one of the things that we see that happens a lot culturally nowadays is we tend to identify ourselves with one characteristic of ourselves. I see this happen a lot with young people where now they everything's at the fingertips with their phone, they're noticing they're having these symptoms of anxiousness, and then all of a sudden it becomes one's identity. I'm anxious, I'm depressed, I have OCD. And and the invitation there is, well, tell me more about who you are. And this is part of your journey, this experience, and we're gonna honor that this is a real suffering, but this isn't all of you. And and different communities culturally are gonna navigate that differently. Um we've had a joy of working with some beautifully diverse communities, especially in the greater California area. Um, so many um different immigrant communities, and I think among them there's a greater hesitancy toward identifying with a diagnosis because their cultural identity is so strong. That's a beautiful richness that they bring to us that we ought to learn from. And so, as we've walked with some of these communities, it's well, how do we talk about this experience of suffering, which is very hidden, in a language that makes sense to you? And then how do you feel called to share this with your faith community? And so one community that they were we were walking with, they said, Well, we tried to do a speaker series about anxiety and nobody showed up. I wonder why. Yeah. So they said, um, we just decided to open up a group at the parish called Panny Cafe. Uh-huh. Bread and coffee, right? And and to invite folks to come and then to just open a conversation around what are you going through? What are some of the struggles in your life? And yeah, the folks leading the face sharing group, they weren't mental health practitioners. They're not claiming an expertise that's not their own. And they know if somebody brings up something where it's persistent emotional distress that's beyond what they could walk with, they're gonna still provide support, but they're also gonna offer a referral. They're gonna know the resources in their area, and they're gonna say, keep coming to Panny Cafe. Right. But let's also talk about what else is out there.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

And rather than introduct introducing a topic and a speaker, say, we want you to feel at home, offer hospitality, people will respond to that invitation and then see where the conversation goes.

SPEAKER_05 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

The student body would be fairly diverse. Would I I I know here at the university, within the psychology department as well, would you say that?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Absolutely. So I I like to brag about the diversity within our cohorts and how many languages they speak. The last time I checked, I think 40 to 45 percent of our students speak more than one language. So, how great is that in this area when we're looking at clinical work they can do of going into Newark, going into Patterson, going into communities where we need someone who speaks Spanish to administer assessments. The comfort that comes in being able to speak in your your your native language and to use feeling words that really resonate with you. It's been really powerful for our students. At the same time, the needs in some of those communities are so great. I think last year for us it was especially difficult to have students come in and talk about their clinical work and say, my client's getting deported. My client's father was deported yesterday. Another one they can't come in, they're doing it remotely. Um how do you stay connected to your client through this? How do you manage those feelings of powerlessness that you can't prevent a deportation? Um, often feeling like it's not enough simply to be present with someone, but as we're talking about tonight, the power of relationship, of bringing them back to you're you're creating that relationship where they do have somebody has been really important. So our students are very diverse and drawn to the margins of working with people on the margins. We have a lot of first generation students. Um, we have a lot of students who themselves need to use services, and that's part of my job is to make sure their needs are met so that they can meet the needs of their clients. It can be exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

But we're happy they found a home here at St. Eves to receive an education that uh will uh encourage and equip them to go back into the communities uh that they come from to uh to to offer uh um help.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

And that's their goal, which is great when they come in. I want to go back and serve in my community.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

You know, as you're reflecting, Chris, it just strikes me the reality of suffering. And we've just entered into Lent, and so we're kind of I think of Lent as as a reminder that we're not going through it alone, that we don't suffer alone. And we talked a little bit before about compassion fatigue. Um, some of the providers, what is compassion fatigue? I kind of wonder about that compassion is a virtue. Can you actually fatigue a virtue? But we won't get into that today. That's another problem. Like burnout, this feeling like I can't keep doing this helping work. And I witness, like we walk with a number of folks who are volunteers at their parish, part-time staff, full-time staff, some priests and deacons, and they just feel worn out. And it kind of brings me to grapple with how do we continue to walk with folks who are suffering when we can't fix it, and even w if when you're a therapist, like somebody's may not get all better. Anxiety might endure, depression might endure. And so I think it takes us back to like what is our hope amidst suffering if it doesn't mean the suffering is gonna go away entirely. And I just to offer another little personal anecdote, another community that I was walking with, a beautifully vibrant faith community of mostly Filipino immigrants, and they have a great devotion related to the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross. Um, and we were out that day on the Feast of the Exaltation to offer a mental health kind of workshop and retreat. And one of the things that I witnessed in the men and women there was after they've gone home from a day of walking with someone, they talk about just coming to prayer and continuing to bring to God the suffering of whoever they've been walking with that day. Because it's a heavy burden to carry and it's gonna crush us. We can't carry it. But it's this continual act of bringing it to Christ as we're seeking to be Christ and to receive Christ in the other.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Both the Filipino community and the Latino community, um uh, yes, the exaltation of the cross, and for so many that's um preparing all through Lent uh for the Via Crucis, right? For the uh and um and and that opportunity, faith and science, and uh Jesus came to heal us, yes, from sin, but also um uh to give us healing and peace that all yes, only he can give with the help of instruments that God can work through. Uh but Lent and the station of the cross and the reflection on his passion can remind us that it is a long road and it it can be a painful road. Um but um but as people of faith, we believing that Good Friday doesn't end isn't the end, but it but it uh God transforms that that that suffering and death even into new life and um and uh and that um and you know being blessed to work with those who you know struggle with depression or go through hard times and um when we're have that experience of uh having someone come back into the light, you know, uh have that experience of healing and uh and and to see um that um we hope is there, right? And uh you think of people in the um uh um 12-step program or or have gone through that experience um and and how um uh um that accompaniment and and and walking the journey together, yes, it's gonna be painful, yes, it might not be fully healed, but but but but healing is is is possible, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Got a question for you, but um throw something out there. So let's say from the perspective of if I am dealing with a mental health illness, is is it my fault? Is it is it God's fault? You know, is it how do I reconcile that as a Catholic? You know, where does that where does that lie?

SPEAKER_04 37:08

Yeah, thanks for asking that question. I'd like to answer it um by sharing the story of one of my really close friends uh who I share her story with permission. Amazing woman. I look up to her profoundly. We got to be friends about five years ago. By that time, she'd already received a diagnosis of schizophrenia and um bipolar disorder. Um and her journey, she is a woman of great faith, uh, brilliant, uh, was pursuing her PhD in her 20s when she came down with schizophrenia. And that's pretty common that you'd experience an um episode of psychosis for the first time in your 20s, and then in and through that, maybe learn of a diagnosis. And um it was a rough road, as it so often is with serious diagnoses like that, being in and out of psychiatric hospitals, working to find the right medication, working to stick to that medication regimen. And she shared, you know, with with great care, um, like there were so many times where she questioned the faith. And she said, God, are you punishing me? God, are you really there? How could you allow this suffering? And there were times when like the faith community didn't show up for her. She tells me about asking for a phone book in the psych hospital and calling various parishes around to see if a priest could come visit her before finally somebody was able to come and visit. Um she tells me about reaching out to a faith community then once she was out of hospitalization, trying to find, you know, can I what's available here? Can I talk to someone? Thanks be to God. She's found a home and and she's very active in her faith community currently. They've embraced her. She's part of faith sharing groups. Um, she offers some actually teaching there at the parish as well. And she said to me a few months ago, I'll tear up when saying it, she said, Beth, I wouldn't go back and change anything about what's happened. She said, God's been with me through it all. And she said, I have faith, even though I still continue to doubt and question our Lord. Um it's one of the greatest blessings in my life that I can call her my friend. And she reveals to me that, like, if you're someone out there who's living with mental illness, it's not your fault. God is not punishing you. Illness exists because of the reality of evil in the world and the fall, but it's not a particular punishment, it's not a particular evil that you've done. Um, and your need reveals to us like we need to show up for you. We need to live out what St. Paul says in the letter to the Corinthians that when one part of the body suffers, all suffer. But when one part flourishes, all flourish with it. Like we are one body, but that means we need to show up for each other.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Thank you for that. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

I think there's parallels here between faith and and the psychology and the science of it sounds like what you're talking about is finding meaning or forging meaning, and that's a very powerful thing we do in in psychology and counseling is helping people find that meaning and that hope. And I I think we can come together in that.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

I'm I'm not sure maybe more in philosophy than psychology, but are college students still reading Victor Frankel's uh.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

I was thinking about Frankel as we were talking. I don't know if there if enough of them are reading it. We need a resurgence.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

We don't judge the classics, they judge us, right? They would just slip them in in the um uh a person can get through any how if they have a sufficient why, right? Um uh yeah, um so um uh so grateful for your your being with us and um and taking the time and uh and and offering the a message of hope and uh I think also witnessing to the value of of education and Catholic education, uh uh Notre Dame, St. Elizabeth's uh that uh are uh are helping the church to engage with the scientific community and supporting ministers um uh in that formation that you're offering uh in the fiat program. Uh so um um maybe just uh there might be, I don't think we have too many high school students as uh but you never know as our as our guests, but we have their parents and grandparents sometimes. Um uh but whether it be to uh a family who is someone struggling with mental illness, or if there's someone out there even who's listening with mental illness, maybe a message that you might have, but also maybe um um uh why a young person might consider the field of um uh mental health um uh service.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

I I I think for me, I speaking from my own experience, I feel like it's a calling. And so listening, listening to where you're called, uh there are many different ways to serve.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

God has a plan for each of us, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

So so listening to that, and I think for young people and their families, don't please don't give up. Uh the first contact maybe nobody answers. Um, but you will find someone, and that connection will lead to good things and um feeling better. Uh, that the right support, um you will feel more alive again, and um that there are a lot of people who want to help. So know that you are thought of and cared for and prayed for.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

And Chris, if I can just add to that, thank you. You know, for families um who have a child or someone in their life with mental illness, like you're not alone. Um, the journey with mental illness can be profoundly isolating, not just for the person with mental illness, but for their loved ones. Um, so many well-meaning family members and friends are gonna respond with advice and judgment. Um and and this can be really painful and further isolating. So I ask you to have the courage to keep reaching out. The National Alliance on Mental Illness, NAMI, has local chapters.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

National Alliance on Mental Illness.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

Yes, they have family-to-family support groups as well as peer support groups, often in local communities or online. They're a good resource. Reach out to your parish. Tell someone that you're struggling. Um even if it's just going to a faith-sharing group where you're not talking about anything that's going on, keep trying to be around community because the symptoms tend to be so isolating, but unfortunately that just makes it worse. So keep reaching out, keep sharing, keep having courage. Um, ask about, explore what resources might be available, and tease out, you know, are these resources in mental health that honor me as a person of faith?

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Thank you. Thank you so much. Uh speaking of those resources here in our diocese two weeks from tonight, I think um Thursday, March 5th, we'll Jay will be sharing the information and uh uh um Jay, you're happy to do that.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yeah, so um well first, so Beth will be back, right? In uh Saturday, I believe that. Back to New Jersey in Piscataway for a very important uh conference that's coming up, New Jersey Catholic Mental Health Conference, from isolation to belonging, mental health in the Catholic Church. Uh, this is a statewide gathering to strengthen understanding, compassion, and pastoral support for those facing mental health struggles. Again, Saturday, May 2nd, 8:30. We'll have info in the show notes. Bishop John P. Dolan from the Diocese of Phoenix will be on hand, as well as Beth, Cardinal Joseph Tobin, Archdiocese of Newark, and a couple others.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Uh all five dioceses on the eparchy um are um collaborating to sponsor the conference.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Um, and then more locally on Thursday, March 5th, do you have those Mental Health Matters Workshop and overview for supporting well-being? And this will be 6 30 to 8 p.m. Thursday, March 5th at St. Mary's Church in Pompton Lake. So check out the show.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

I think that's in conjunction with the New Jersey Mental Health Association, right? We can put more information on the show notes. But uh absolutely talk um uh uh a good way to begin Lent, right? Uh is uh uh a time that we have uh uh the program for the this celebrating the sacrament of reconciliation, uh which I'll put a little plug in for as well, uh uh a sacrament of healing. Not everyone sees confession as a sacrament of healing, but I think this to the sacrament's making a comeback and uh and and that we see it not as uh the no, it's it's not easy for any of us to say ask for forgiveness, but the healing that comes with receiving that forgiveness. Um uh so uh Mondays uh in all of our parishes from 7 to 8:30, the Sacrament of Reconciliation will be available, and it's part of the Welcome Home to Healing program. So that's one way the church tries to offer healing, but there are many ways that um and resources available. So thanks so much for Beth for being with us and Chris and to the university for hosting tonight and uh for allowing us to have this opportunity. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

And thank you all for joining us. Please subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating. Get to know us better by following Bishop Kevin on Instagram and beyond the beacon on social media. Read the bishop's weekly column on beaconnj.org. Get in touch if you have a question for the bishop or a podcast topic idea and discover our other podcasts. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Thank you, everybody. Have a blessed land. Thanks so much for being with us. Thanks.