SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast of the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. Join us for weekly conversations about our Catholic faith, and together let's strive to live a life of faith, hope, and love. I'm Jay Agnish, Communications with Director for the Diocese of Patterson. With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney. Bishop, how are you? I'm good, Jay. How are you? Doing well, thank you. Any anything fun going on? You've been you do you get out and play a little golf over the Memorial Day? Since the end of April.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

No, I was hoping to get out on Monday afternoon, but uh we had rained, so uh I caught up on work instead. So um but uh had a wonderful weekend uh as we ordained uh Carlos Pinagos to the transitional deaconate. Looking forward to ordaining um uh Sebastian Munoz on Saturday morning to priesthood. And um, by the time this comes out, he'll be God willing, uh and he's gonna be ordained um on the weekend of Corpus Christi. So uh the guy who was ordained the transitional deacon, Carlos um on Saturday, I said uh what a blessing to be able to preach your first homily as an ordained minister on the feast of holy of the holy trinity. Bishop Baron calls it uh Bishop Barron calls it the preacher's nightmare that shouldn't be the preacher's nightmare of the Trinity. But I think a little for priesthood especially to celebrate first Mass on uh First Mass Thanksgiving on Feast of Corpus Christi. And then I'll be looking forward to um uh Corpus Christi Parish in Chatham uh on their feast day. Uh we'll host uh first communion children from all over the diocese. Uh Bishop Saratelli had an in uh custom of gathering them uh for a catechesis and time of prayer. Yeah. Uh so we have that on this coming Sunday afternoon.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Awesome. So who do we have with us? So so joining us is Paulus Father Tom Gibbons, a New Jersey native who grew up in Chester, where he attended St. Lawrence the Martyr Church. Father Tom is vice president of Paulus Productions, a faith-based production company in the Catholic tradition based in Los Angeles, California. We will discuss the new documentary film entitled Hollywood Priest: The Story of Father Bud Kaiser, which Tom produced, directed, wrote, and edited. The film is airing on television and is available to watch on the free PBS app. So welcome, Father Tom, and thanks for coming on. Oh, great, great.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Thank you. It's it's it's great to be an invited to the chancery, not under duress.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I'm trying to remember when we first connected. Uh it's a while now, but uh I you were maybe reached out and uh once I heard uh well I uh the the Paulists uh um as I've learned have been here in the diocese and especially connected to St. Thomas the Apostle Parish in Oak Ridge, where there was their novitiate, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah, uh we had our novitiate in Oak Ridge, and uh we had our cemetery there. And I think we sold that property, I want to say in 2008. Um, but then uh St. Thomas the Apostle, also in Oak Ridge, just down the road, we always had a great relationship with that parish, and they were just incredibly generous and opened up some of their land so that we could move uh our men who have gone to the Lord, you know, onto the property.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

And so uh Father Sean Foley is still there, uh and uh the uh the Paulists have the parish in uh in um St. Paul's in Manhattan, right? Is uh and so I you know had heard of the Paulists, but um uh Father Bud Kaiser, uh who we'll talk about, and the movie Romero, uh, as I've shared, and also Entertaining Angels, right? Uh wow. Um when I heard you had some connection there, I said, Oh, we gotta meet. So thank you for coming all the way from California to be here with us in studio, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Yeah, no, it it it worked out great. You know, um I'm uh my family is still all in the area. My dad goes to St. Kateri up in uh Sparta, and my mom is still at at uh plugging away at St. Lawrence and Chester. So um I end up coming back to the area a lot, so I'm I'm glad the timing worked out. Glad to have you.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Great. Well, why don't we kick it off with with prayer?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Place ourselves in God's presence in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. As we look forward to the feast of Corpus Christi, having celebrated the feast of the Holy Trinity this past Sunday, we ask the continued help and intercession of the Holy Spirit as we pray. Come, O Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of the faithful, and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your spirit, and we shall be recreated, and thou shalt renew the face of the earth. O God, who has taught the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Spirit, grant us in that same spirit to be truly wise and always rejoice in your consolation through Christ our Lord. Amen. Our Lady Seed of Wisdom, Mother of the Church, prayed, pray for us. Saint Joseph and Saint John the Baptist, pray for us. Saint Is it Saint Isaac Hecker? No, servant of God, Isaac Hecker. Pray for us, Saint Francis de Sales, pray for us. And I think also servant of God, Dorothy Day. Isn't she? Yeah, I think she's servant of God.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Is she blessed yet?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Uh she might be. All holy men and women, pray. Pray for us, name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Saint Oscar Romero. Oh, yeah, Saint. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Can I forget? Forgive me, uh, Saint Oscar. Uh and St. Francis de Sales, the, I believe, the patron saint of um media. I believe he is, yes. Right. Um so uh thanks again for being with us today.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Well, great. Yeah, there's uh so much to talk about. Um, but I wonder if we can use um the subject of your new documentary, Father Bud Kaiser, sort of as a lens into the different topics that we might want to discuss. So why don't we start with who exactly is Father Bud Kaiser and why did you decide to make a documentary about him?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Uh Father, I'm a member of the Paulus Fathers. I've been ordained by the Paulus Fathers for 12 years, and this mysterious figure named Father Bud Kaiser just always loomed large. You know, he's just one of those guys you always heard about. And he was um Hollywood Priest. Hollywood Priest, yes, yes. And uh uh what happened was I was um I'd always been kind of interested in film, and uh when I joined the Paulus Fathers, I had some opportunities to kind of do some side projects and uh and uh then I was transferred to Los Angeles and I thought, oh, you know what I should do is I should really go on an Ignation 30-day retreat. I went to Loyal College, well, Loyal University in Maryland now, um, and I did Jesuit volunteer corps after after college. So I said, you know what, I always wanted to do one of those Jesuit retreats. And but I think whenever you do a retreat, it you have to bring along some extra reading material. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need you need a break from all the That's one of the nice parts of a treatment.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

So and I knew uh Father Bud had written an autobiography called Hollywood Priest. So I said, Oh, I'll bring this along. And I was just reading it and I was just like, it was just he was just very honest about who he was. He was just very upfront about his joys of priesthood, his struggles with priesthood, his adventures in Hollywood, and and what I thought was really interesting was um as I was kind of and I was just being assigned to a parish, like Father Bud, the same parish, St. Paul the Apostle in the Westwood neighborhood of Los Angeles. And he was um, but I what I I knew about his TV work, you know, because it was kind of legendary, and I'd seen the film Romero Insight, yes, Insight, which ran from 1960 to 1983. And the funny thing is I I I had never heard of the show, and because it used to come on on most stations on Sunday mornings, and like it didn't, it took me a little while to realize, oh, I was always at church on Sunday morning, so of course I didn't see the TV show. But I had seen Romero, yeah, and just a really, really powerful film. And I just thought, wow, this was a really interesting guy. But like in throughout the biography, he talks about some of his his doubts and his struggles, and he was very honest about them. And then he got to the part where he started talking about um getting involved with Catholic Relief Services and doing work in famine-stricken Africa. Um, and uh my last job before joining the Paulus Fathers was doing web development for Catholic Relief Services in Baltimore. So I thought, oh wow. So I just I it so as I was kind of like finishing up another uh small documentary that was just gonna be put out on YouTube, something about this really captivated me. And then um then as I transitioned to work working for Paulus Productions, you know, in Hollywood, everyone's looking for a story. Everyone's, you know, and I was looking at the book saying, well, we have one right here. You know, this is a great story. And and uh fortunately the president of Paulus Productions, uh Mike Sullivan, said, Well, it would be at the very least, it would be good to interview some of these celebrities who knew Father Bud, you know, because it was like a who's who of like TV actors. Started with Martin Sheen. Martin Sheen, Bob Newhart. Bob Newhart, yes. Oh, yeah. Um, John Amos, Tim Matheson from Animal House. Oh, sure. One of my favorite uh stories that kind of came out of the film was uh Tim Matheson played Jesus Christ in an episode of um Insight for Father Bud, and his very next role after that was Otter in Animal House. So I got to ask him, how did you make that transition in here?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And you said you have a story about the mom from Happy Days. I hadn't seen that name when I just saw the trailer now. Marion Ross.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Marion Ross. So um and uh and also just to let you know, I I uh was produ I was one of the producers on it, Maria Elena Pineda, who was a parishioner and a great uh parishioner at St. Paul's in LA, but uh also kind of served as co-producer and really kind of helped shepherd the film, you know, to completion. Um but Maria and I, along with the film crew, went to Marion Ross's house, and she's like, this is the house that Happy Days built. And then I think she was in another show, Brooklyn something, a Brooklyn show. And she says, and that that guest house is the show that the Brooklyn show paid for. And so Marie and I are then we're both the same age, we're both Gen Xers, and we walk in and Marion Ross is there, and she's like, Okay, come to the table, children, I have breakfast ready for you. And the other guys in the film crew, Mrs.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Cunningham.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Exactly, exactly. And the other guys in the film crew, they're younger, you know, and they were like, Oh, okay, I'll go grab some breakfast. And Marie and I are like, Mrs. Cunningham's making us breakfast. This is so amazing. And then, of course, you know, it she's a really nice home, and and I'm looking around, and she, of course, she has some memorabilia out there. And on the wall, I see the exact same lunchbox I had as a five-year-old. The exact same Happy Days Lunchbox. So uh I will get that picture to you, but we all took a picture with the Happy Days Lunchbox, and that was definitely one of my big uh treats from working on this film.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

So, how did Father Bud know this star-studded cast of actors and writers and producers?

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Well, it was funny. I mean, he uh the parish, St. Paul the Apostle, is located in Westwood, uh which is right by UCLA, and it's right in between Brentwood and Beverly Hills. So um, and at the time it was like it was one of the parishes where if you were in the entertainment industry and if you were Catholic, it was one of the parishes that you people tended to go to. So he had uh Brian Keith of the original um parent trap, you know, and family affair, uh Jane Wyman, uh Jerry Lewis sent his kids to the school, you know, and the producer of the Leave It to Beaver show, you know, all these were kind of around. And and Father Bud was a young whippersnapper priest, and he would give these uh Catholicism 101 classes to kind of bring people into the church. And uh it was just kind of this interesting community, and enough people really responded to Father Bud that the uh the producer of the Leave It to Beaver show, Joe Connolly, said, Hey, we should put you on um, we should do a TV show with the talks that you give. And so the talks, it's like, well, maybe let's mix it up and let's do a little bit of acting. So they started doing like little plays and they bring in like some of the actors. Some of their friends, some of their friends, right. You know, and it would be like it was it was a time when not many people said no to father, like, oh father, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Um one of the things I loved um in researching for for the podcast was the idea that Father Kaiser bridged the the gap, you know, bridged culture and faith and reached out to the secular, I guess, world and had a relationship there with the church teaching and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

And what what kind of what happened was um because he and and he was able to get it marketed by making the his productions accessible to everybody. So it was like, you know, he would obviously introduce Catholic uh values, but some days it would be like, all right, you know, let's have a rabbi on. You know, let's say, you know, and then and then it started becoming into dramas, you know, and it kind of if you think of like the Twilight Zone where each episode is different but has its own kind of like science fiction-y theme. Well, insight started was like that, except it would have its own morality play or spiritual theme, you know, and it would just uh really get into the various issues of the day. And it kind of became a thing in Hollywood where people were like, oh have you done insight? Have you done insight? No, that's exactly right. Yeah, people and and you know, like uh Harvey Cormann who is Harvey Cormann. Harvey Cormann.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Carol Bonet show.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Oh, yeah, the Carabinet show and and and Blazing Saddles. And blazing saddles. Not that you and I would ever watch anything like that in that show. But you know, I think we've heard stories. Um, but he didn't love the but he was, you know, but Harvey Corman is an actor and he wanted to act. He wasn't Catholic or anything. I don't think he was Catholic, but Father Bud says, Oh, I'll give you a dramatic role. And Father and so Harvey Corman plays this blue-collar guy in order to explore um the blue-collar neighborhood, but it's during a time of integration, and the black family wants to move in and they have the discussion about it. So for actors all across the spectrum, um, all across the religious spectrum, it just became a really great opportunity to try something new to kind of broaden their craft um and to get more exposure. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

And even to maybe try a more wholesome role that they might not get to play in in uh like a shoot-em-up movie in Hollywood or something.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Right. That was something Martin Sheen talked about. It's like I always had to play these like terrible, you know, people, like for those who would you know, it's uh I mean all the cop shows and you're always playing the bad guy, so it's like, oh, okay, oh I can play something that's has a little bit more deep.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And you were saying, I think before we began that uh as after the 23 years, as it was winding down, uh Father Bud was possibly looking for a new project. And uh someone who had uh known or written about uh the recently assassinated Archbishop Romero, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Uh yeah, what happened was along the way, I mean because Father Bud always looked at at whatever media work he was doing as ministry. You know, it wasn't just to be, you know, I want to be a successful producer. He wanted to be a successful producer, but yeah, exactly. He wanted to do that, but in service of the ministry. And along the way, he founded something called the Humanitas Prize.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Oh, yes, right.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Yeah. And so uh he got to know he all he had worked with a lot of writers in Hollywood through the Insight series, but he says, hey, I want to influence writers to encourage them to do positive content, you know, uplifting content. Um and by doing that, he got to know all these writers, and one of them was John Sacred Young. And after, and uh John Sacred Young would go on to write uh China Beach, and uh he uh wrote many of the West Wing episodes. Uh he became really a a strong established writer, but in 1980, um, he was you know friends with Father Bud through the Humanitas Prize. They would have these he wasn't a complete atheist, but him and Father Bud will always love to kind of have these great debates with one another, and they were great friends. But when Archbishop Romero was killed in 1980, uh John Sacred Young sent him the article and saying, Hey, you're looking for stories. This would this might be a good story. And that really set Father Bud off to go visit El Salvador and kind of learn more about what was going on there.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And that movie I used it with youth groups and um on the bus to the March for Life in Washington, you know, and um and then myself getting to know um people from El Salvador, uh, and uh I can still remember um uh somebody coming in with a baptism certificate, and I looked at the baptism certificate, and the minister of baptism was uh Father Rutilio Grande. Um the and the portrayal of him and his assassination and but I I think that I'm not a uh uh uh an expert when it comes to the technoc uh uh technicalities of movie craft, but I think the movie, that the way that movie was filmed and portrayed, even Bishop Romero's own conversion, they think he's a bookworm. And yeah, um and and the choice of Raul Julia uh as the main uh I I I think it's one of the most powerful movies I've I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yeah, and it's it's it's I think many people in the acting, you know, many people think that's that's Raul Julia's best role. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

You know, and um unfortunately went on to the the Adams family after that, uh which got him, I guess, uh the success. But but yes, uh how how the way he took on Romero and uh um and his preaching and uh uh his concern for the poor and his identity with the Salvadoran people who were suffering, um just powerful, powerful. And then I know Jay has some, but uh uh you mentioned Martin Sheen and uh it's it wasn't long after Romero that uh Entertaining Angels came out.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

I think Entertaining Angels came out in 1994. I think uh 94-95.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Moira Moira Kelly Kelly, right uh and Martin Sheen in the role of uh Peter Morin. Um I hope our listeners and uh um viewers uh are aware of the whole story of Dorothy Day and who she was and what she meant, but even Peter Morin's role. But if you haven't seen Entertaining Angels and the um the the title of the movie, I can still see uh it was Dorothy's, I think, sister and brother-in-law, or brother and sister-in-law in their um uh apartment. And the the Dorothy was starting this work, and something they learned about hospitality came from the scriptures. Uh you never know when you may be entertaining an angel, right? Yeah, and uh um uh so um uh he went from Romero to entertaining angels?

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yeah, he went from Romero um to entertaining angels, and that so it was kind of like his four-way, because I think in many ways, just um financially for Mero was very much of a success, and I think entertaining angels struggled a little bit. So um, and I what I think what happened there is uh Paul's production started moving more into documentaries and started doing more work in uh particularly in the late 90s and early 2000s and working with the History Channel and doing documentaries on Saints.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Uh Martin Sheen has become a great advocate for the faith and uh uh El um El Camino, right? He did the movie on the on the El Camino.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

The way great film, great, great film. Yeah, directed by his son, uh director.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Right, right, right, right, right, right. Uh and he is is he has another son named Charlie, I think, right? Yes, he does, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

So you mentioned Martin Sheen, and he was at Father Bud Kaiser's uh side bedside, right, when he when he when he died, and they were they became very close. And and if I could just back it back up to F Father Bud, uh a real um I guess a life-changing moment for Father Bud was when he went to Africa and and you had kind of touched on this with Romero and his just he developed a real love and appreciation for the poor, and it was a powerful quote in your documentary where it says talks about how Father Bud uh saw the joy of God in the face of the poor the poor. Right. Just so powerful, and he's so can you just talk about that maybe phase of his life and and then if he could transition even for for you, where are you finding God?

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yeah, sure. Um the you know it's th there's a really good documentary on Netflix right now. Um I think it was the greatest night in pop music, and it's about the making of We Are the World. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, I think just before we uh I don't want to interrupt you thought, but keep the thought. But you mentioned the documentary you were working on before this one, which is available on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Correct. Isaac Hecker and the Journey of Catholic America.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Check it out, they can find it, right? Yes. And Isaac Hecker, the founder of the Paulus, uh, another great story. Go ahead. Yes, yes. Jay's question.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Sure, yeah. But what it um and what I was reflecting on is like four four or five years before that, a father Bud got a call from Catholic Relief Services because Father Bud was kind of known as the Hollywood priest for a lot of obvious and well founded reasons. And And uh Catholic Relief Services was as they continue to do a lot of great work in Africa, and they saw this horrific famine happening in uh, I think it was the Sudan area and particularly Western Africa. And so they asked Father Bud, Hey, can you bring some celebrities over and do a tour and film the tour so we can let people know what's going on? Because it's really horrific. And uh I we really didn't get an opportunity to get into the film, but Father Bud had also spent a lot of time in India as well. And with Mother Teresa and uh and he talks about his time in India having becoming almost like a really strong love affair with the poor, and then Africa just really that experience of of the famine-stricken areas of Africa just really floored him. And I think in many ways he had a real conversion and kind of a renewed commitment to the priesthood out of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

And he cried for 10 days.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah, just because he would just talk about he had never seen anything like that. He had never seen human suffering, but he also saw the joy. You know, it's it's uh, you know, I think in in our popular culture, um, you know, we always think, oh, you know, to make it in LA or to make it in Beverly Hill, you know, and and one of the things Father Bud noticed is like, you know, I know a lot of great people in in in California, but the people that I met in Africa had just so much more joy, you know, so much more open, you know, and and and I think that just really touched him and it really helped recommit what he wanted his priesthood to be about. And I think in many ways, I heard from many people who said, you know, I'm not sure he would be able to really do a project like the Oscar Romero story, at least not with the integrity that he brought to the not that he would have been not that he would have done a bad job with it, but just would just brought so much of a deeper level to it if he had not had that experience in Africa and how much it just continued to affect the rest of his ministry.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

And when we think about vocation and living one's vocation, he interesting on the trailer he talks about, you know, priests and a parish as his parishioners. Well, he said the actors and were his parishioners. Uh and obviously um he had a quite a vocational journey um and ministry, and uh and yet the trailer uh I leaves you with uh and he had some struggles and doubts, which you mentioned, and and he fell in love with the religious sister, right? And the trailer leaves it there. Yes. Uh so stay tuned.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

You know, it was it was really funny because uh you know you were talking about Cardinal Dolan and how he has a TV show recently, and then they show the trailer, and I'm like, oh, I forgot that it leaves in there. I'm like, oh, and Cardinal Dolan didn't bring it up. What are you on with Cardinal Dolan? Well, I was on uh a couple weeks ago. I think I zoomed in on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

So uh your uh confrère, uh Father Dave, is uh his uh often his host um on conversations with Cardinal Dolan. Um and he just uh he ordained two Paulish priests recently, right? That's right, yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah. Uh Dan Accalino and uh Chris Launchon.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Who and one of them, I think Chris, he he's known Cardinal Dolan is known personally in his family for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yeah, he know he's known Chris's grandmother for a long time, because I think Cardinal Dolan uh served in Milwaukee as bishop, is that correct? And then I think that's and then Chris's family is from the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Um but so the trailer leaves it, Father Kaiser uh and and I guess they worked it out.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Yes, yes. Well, obviously Father Kaiser stayed a priest. You know. Um I shouldn't give that away. Spoilers. Spoilers, yeah. You know, but in some ways it was like it it and in some ways the way we we kind of talk about it is we kind of use the trip to Africa as kind of, you know, after kind of re you know, you make a you mi you do a redecision like that, and Sister Rose Pacati, who's become a great friend, and she's done tons of media work over the last couple of decades. Um, it's like she says, you know, sometimes we all think we we all rethink our vocation from time to time. Maybe God doesn't rethink our vocation, but we might. And um, but I think there is still like it the trip to Africa, I think it can be suggested that many ways kind of help Father Bud recommit to his vocation, even though he'd already made the choice to stay and and and not not pursue other options.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

So, Father Tom, where uh where are you finding God in your life? And maybe you can touch on a bit of your vocation story? Uh YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

No, I'm just gonna social media, Instagram, probably. Stay tuned, you know. Um where am I finding God? It's it's um I I think I I I'm finding God in I think I've always kind of found God in the struggle. You know, I I was asked recently what are what are some scriptural passages, and I think I often go back to the Jacob story of wrestling with God um knowing you're going to lose, but trying to be a good scrappy person. And that there's blessings and losing to God. Yes, there's blessings and losing to God. Um and I I you know I'm really I think what I I think I'm at a place right now where I'm just you know, I I I turned 50 a couple of years ago, and you know, turning 50, it's uh I was actually ordained at 40. So I kind of say instead of buying a sports car for a midlife crisis, I became a priest, yeah. But turning 50 was a little different. And I was like, oh, okay. So and I think just a part of me just looks back at my story and just like not that I I have this amazing story or anything, but just seeing how little pieces of my life have come together and continue to come together. And uh and I think it's um sorry, I'm kind of rambling a little bit because it's it's a big rambling question. Uh I definitely find it in the rosary. The rosary helps me. Rosary helps me a lot. Um I have a little ADD, so I just love the beating.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Um Jay mentioned uh your vocation story. Just take us from growing up in St. Lawrence Parish, right? Here in the diocese, um grammar school, high school, and then college in Philadelphia, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:45

And then I no, I went to college in Baltimore. Oh, Baltimore was a good thing. Father Bud Went in Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Um but so yourself, um growing up uh in St. Lawrence, uh and then high school, maybe just say a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Sure. Yeah, no, I mean I uh we we had a family that, you know, we just went to church on Sunday, and that was just what we did. You know, it was senior Flanagan was easy to uh uh uh it was um Father Ryan, okay, uh who passed away a couple of years ago, and Father Ray Ray Leopoteski. Yes. And he was the associate pastor. I actually had the a great, great uh I was back in town visiting my mom, and him and I got to concelebrate Mass at St. Luke's this past Sunday, which was really, really, really lovely. Um and so uh and then I high school? High school was Westmars Central, not you know, just kind of I kind of joke that we were uh we it's a public school, but like everybody was Catholic, or most most people were Catholic, so uh I not of course not everybody. Um and then uh then I went to college, uh graduated in 1990, and then went to Loyola in Maryland. Met the Jesuits. Met the Jesuits, and I think in many ways, you know, and this is probably where I related to Father Bud's story a little bit, is I started getting involved in they had a really great and continue to have a really great community service program. And so I started getting involved in homeless issues in Baltimore and doing that kind of service. And I think that that kind of helped expand my faith in in a in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

You mentioned Jesuit Volunteer Corps? I did Jesuit Volunteer Corps. Did you do that? That's a year after college.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

A year after college. I did that in Phoenix, Arizona. And uh Priester was not on the radar at all. I just did JVC because it seemed like, well, I didn't want to backpack through Europe and I had already done all this stuff and I had never been out west. So I figured, oh, this will be great. I'll be a volunteer cowboy, or you know, and I got to teach art in a in a Catholic elementary school. And then um, and then the year after I stayed out in Phoenix, and that's when I started feeling a really, really strong call to the priesthood. And I I usually like to refer to the book of Jonah, you know, where God says go one way, and I'm like, well, that's nice, God, but I have other ideas.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Bishop Barron is a big fan of uh uh the the Jonah story.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Is he really? Yes, yes, I can see that. Yes, you know, where it was and um and so uh or Jacob also, you know. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Uh Bible Barron loves to make uh God says go do this and he Jonah goes in the other.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Yeah, but I'm just like, yeah, I have my own thing that thanks for your input. God. I'm gonna go do the exactly. Um and at the time I was thinking, oh, maybe I'll go to film school and be in, you know, and and uh and I think it was just for me, um, you know, and and the way I kind of describe people like my vocation story is, you know, uh whenever I talk to anybody who is discerning, and the funny thing is I don't even use the word discerning because it's like, no, I had an idea of what God wanted. I just didn't want the same thing. Discernment is when you're trying to learn what God's will is. But when you know what it is and you don't care, that's not discerning, that's doing something else.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Um and I I think God you said you were when someone who is discerning, you what do you say to them?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Uh I what I say to them is um it takes as long as it takes, and when it's time, it's time. Like it's like cooking a souffle. Like I know people, like for me, I needed that time in between, I guess it was like 23 when I first started, if you want to call and 11 years later when I finally joined. Because I think for me, um, in my story, I think there was some growing up that I needed to do. Um, there's some deeper appreciation. I got to have a lot of great life experiences. That worked for me. You know, other people, it's like, you know, I knew when I was some people might say, I'm new when I'm 15 years old, and they're in, and and and God bless them. I think, you know, um, God has a different role and pattern in that I think it's um what Richard Rohr might talk about as liminal space. Right. And you know, and there's a lot of you know, confusion and angst and all that, but there can also be a lot of grace in that liminal space. So um I joined the Paulist Fathers in 2006. Um, a lot of people ask me why I didn't join the Jesuits with my background, and I I like to tell them that um a Paulist is a Jesuit who doesn't like to go to graduate school. You know, so uh so it was a six-year formation, and then I was ordained uh here in New York City at St. Paul the Apostle Church in 2012.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Right. So what the heck were you doing in between that time?

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Yeah, no, it was um I moved back to Baltimore, and I think a part of me wanted a little bit of a break from from working in church organizations, and uh so and it was the late 90s, and it was the time when this brand new thing kids called the World Wide Web was just coming out. And uh I was always a very artistic kid, and I just grew up assuming that if you ever wanted to do art for a living, you were gonna be a starving artist. Uh where when the World Wide Web started coming out, it's like, oh, if you just learn Photoshop and Adobe products, you can get a job. And so I was a psychology major, so when I had some artistic talent, it's like I started developing web pages. And then I was living in Baltimore, and I I every time I just kind of learned more and more and more digital program, digital graphics programs. And then uh I eventually got a job at Catholic Relief Services headquarters, where I was um I worked there for I think it was about two years in their headquarters. And if I had not gone on to join the priesthood, I often say I'd still be there because I loved working there. It was such a really great place. And they're headquarters in Baltimore. Yeah, such a great organization.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Now you had told me in our pre-interview that you you had an aspiration to be a filmmaker and you were you would be drawing cartoons even when you were younger, book reports on Walt Disney. So talk about maybe how things have come full circle for you now.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Yeah, no, it's it's funny. It's like when you talked about like looking at, you know, sometimes you can you you don't see the story unfold as you're in the middle of it, but when you look back, you're like, oh, I see all those connections made. And I I grew up wanting to be Walt Disney and wanting to be a cartoonist and and then also being a film director. And then I think as I got older and my parents are like, well, that's not really a valid, a valid career path. Yeah. And I was like, well, I don't want to work, you know, I I I wanted a house and you know, just I wanted a stable life. I didn't want to be like living off Lime of Beans. I God bless people with that kind of commitment. I just knew I didn't have that. And then I think one of the things that was interesting about the Paulus Fathers, one, is they were the first men's Catholic religious community founded in the United States. Oh, that's right. And I've always been a U.S. history guy. And one of the things I liked about the founder of the Paulus Fathers, Isaac Hecker, is he originally started off as a New England transcendentalist. So he was really good friends with Henry David Thoreau, and Ralph Waldell Emerson told him he was crazy for becoming a Catholic. And he's in some ways he was kind of the forest gump of the 1800s. He would just like appear. Yeah, it was like he knows Louisa May Alcott and and and Pope Pius IX, you know, like okay, there's a there's not many people of that Venn diagram. Um, but they were because of like people like Father Bud Kaiser, the Pauls had always been involved in media. And I think I always kind of had this sense that whatever kind of ministry I was gonna do, whatever kind of priestly ministry, that I'd like it to have some sort of communications background. And so um kind of that split between parish uh doing parish work and then also doing communications work.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Speaking of, sorry, uh the vocation and God's call and and the internet, um uh it looks like uh Carlo Acudis is about to be named the Saint. I heard that a web designer. Oh my goodness, yeah, right. Early on.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Yeah, yeah. And and it's and and I think it's really great because I think um uh one of the great things is I think here there's something relatable about it because I think, you know, for a lot of valid reasons, but I think so many because we have 2,000 years of history of saints, sometimes their life stories don't seem as immediately accessible. Right. And this is just a few years ago, right? Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

So what are you working on now?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Well uh we're finishing a film uh called um as as we all know, we probably a lot of us feel like polarizate toxic polarization in our society has taken on like a lot of uh it's become a really big problem. And not yeah, it's it's it and it's to the point where it's not so much what do we disagree on, but how do we go about disagreeing. So in 2020, as we know, after the death of George Floyd, a lot of the Confederate statues started coming down uh in uh across the country. In California, however, the statues of Saint Huneparo Sarah started coming down.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

So I was uh ordained and installed as bishop on July 1st of 2020, yes, which was the feast of Huniperosera. Really? So uh there's a custom to give uh a little gift remembrance to the bishops who've come. Not many came at that time because it was a pandemic, but um the Bishop Saratelli and the committee um uh with in conversation with me decided we'd give a little statue of uh um Huniparosera. And sadly, what was going on in the country at that time, when I gave them out, I said, please don't throw the statue at me when you get it. I'm sorry, go ahead. But go ahead, yeah, yeah. Hunuprocero became a target, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

And he kind of yeah, he became a big target. And I was growing up, you know, I mean, growing up on the East Coast, I I uh I kind of know American Catholic American history kind of okay from the East Coast perspective, but really had no understanding from the West Coast pers perspective. And Hunter Rosero was the Franciscan friar who founded the California Mission.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

And seemed to walk thousands and thousands of miles with the foot pro and the problem, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yes, bum leg, you know, that he got from walking. And uh but I also had spent a lot of time with displaced communities and you know, many I I spent a lot of time in African-American parishes and African American communities, so I also know that sometimes it's like the main narrative isn't always the full narrative. So I was kind of like, well, I don't, you know, I I I could understand why Confederate statues might need to be taken down from a social looking at it from a social justice lens, but I really didn't know anything about the story of Hunter El Sarah. And the more I started digging, and and it was really many in the not all, but many of the California natives were saying he represented, he didn't represent a saint, he represented the colonization efforts that took away their culture. And what I thought was interesting about his story was, or at least the debate around him, was that the people who were saying that Hune Pro Sarah is a saint are completely correct. And the people who say he was a colonizer are completely correct. And so it was less of a black and white issue.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

But also a defender of those who were suffering as a result of colonization, because in um uh building those missions, there was a it was often a safe place. It wasn't perfect, uh, but uh a lot of people uh got a lot of care, uh, and and were also introduced to the faith, right? Correct, yeah. Right. San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles, all those names, Santa Barbara, Santa Clara, right? Um all the names of California, um, names of saints, um uh th mostly often thanks to the June Procera.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Right. And and here's the title, I I the title of the film came to me first, Statue of Limitations. I came up with that title. I'm like, ah, I don't know what's gonna happen. And so for the last four years, my uh co-producer and co-director Maria Elena Pineda, who was so instrumental in Hollywood Priest, we've just been learning more about the story, and but we've also but we also realized along the way, wow, this is really about polarization and how do we go about disagreeing and how do we learn history? And so we partnered with a great group called Braver Angels, who is doing this amazing work around the country of bringing um reds and blues together to have like civil conversations and not necessarily try to convince one another. And so we said, what if we did something like that with um with the Huneperosara debate? So we brought them together and we brought all as so spiritual.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Which angels?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Braver Angels.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Braver BraverAngels.org.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I highly recommend just especially as we go into election season, they have tons of resources for how to talk with family members and how to talk, you know, and and ways of not we can disagree, but we don't have to hate each other, right? Correct, correct. Yes. And and it's like and and really worrying about like the demonization of like how do we refer to people with whom we disagree? Do we say, you know, even maintaining disagreement? And so what we've kind of learned is this film has kind of become about that. And and along the way, we're able to interview uh a writer for The Atlantic, Arthur Brooks, who's uh Catholic, who's uh been doing he recently wrote a book with Oprah, and we actually were able to interview him before Oprah, and he's been getting a lot of airplay. And he talks a lot about um how do we, you know, uh the the kind of like toxic polarization and a culture of contempt where we so many of us find like we have to just kind of fold our arms and just say, oh, those people over there, they all think this way. Those people all the and and how it's it it's really a destructive pattern for us all, and that we have to learn. It's not that we should avoid disagreement, but we have to learn how to disagree better.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

As you say, a student of history, yes, our country has had it has had its times of terrible division, but our country also has found ways to bring so many diverse people together and live together in um not what was agreeing, but yeah, uh in civility and realizing there are goals that we can work on together. And um the civil rights movement certainly um in the midst of struggle brought people together and um we there's reasons to be hopeful, right?

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Right, yeah, there are, yeah, no, it's it's you know, uh I think it was George George Will, I think it was who said it's like in some ways we Americans have had a vacation from history, and in many ways it's like we're seeing some of that, but it's also I think I've been really inspired because the Paulus Fathers have been really uh we just had a big convocation, we just had a big summit in Las Vegas of all places, um, to bring different we had the uh the two writers for uh National Catholic Report uh the two editors for National Catholic Reporter and National Catholic Register together on the same stage to talk about ideological things. Exactly, yeah. And then how do we go about respecting one another? We can still disagree.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

And you did it in Las Vegas. Here's the reason well, yeah. Here was the reason why we did it in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

I always have to say that. Um the two reasons was if you're gonna bring people from all over the country, Las Vegas is a great place to do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

If you want to see the need for grace.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

If you want to see the need for grace, um but I think also one of the reasons we picked it was because Nevada is a swing state. Oh, yeah. So we wanted to pick something. Um, next year we'll do it at Reno, and then we'll no, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Well, thank you for the important work that you're doing. So very fascinating. How can people find out more about Paulis Productions and these different projects you're working on?

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Sure. Uh visit Paul'sproductions.org uh to find out more just about our company. Hollywoodpriest.com. Um we're hoping to have uh PBS broadcasts. I think we're we're working on it this summer. We realize we have to kind of go station by station once we get to But it's already started in some areas of the country. It has started in some areas.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

And did I hear one of you say that PBS is a free app?

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Yeah, so there's a free app, PBS passport, I think it's called. Anyone can download it and the documentary is available to watch there.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

You can watch there. And then uh the for the Hunepero Sarah documentary, um, it's SarahStatues.org. So S-E-R-R-A statues.org.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

And when will that come out?

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Uh God willing. Uh I've been using that term a lot. I think uh we're hoping to have it in the film festivals come October. So we're we're hopefully hopefully finishing editing that right now. But uh what I've learned with filmmaking is it's it's like when you renovate your kitchen, you think it's gonna take six months, it's gonna take 18. But I think I I do think we're we're closing in on the uh on the finishing line for that.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Father Tom.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Oh, thank you for having me. This is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Thanks so much for being here. It's great to reconnect and uh hopefully be seen you as you come to visit your mom and dad and family. And uh you always have a home here in Patterson. And uh we're we're happy that uh uh a guy a young man from the diocese is now doing so much in uh as as a Paul's priest and in your ministry. And uh so you'll be in our prayers and please pray for us as well.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for your hospitality. It's always it's always great coming home. Thanks, thanks.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Okay. Anything else, Bishop, before we finish the episode?

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Remember, the Lord works in mysterious ways. Yeah. Very true and and meet some really wonderful people, right? So uh uh we look for the Lord's will day by day and uh ask him to guide us with the help of our blessed mother and holy holy men and women.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Okay, thank you for joining us. Please subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating. Get to know us better by following Beyond the Beacon on Facebook or Instagram. Email questions and podcast topic ideas to beyond at pattersondioces.org. Discover our other podcasts, Coffee with Cupkey and the Paul Street Journal. See you next time.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Thanks, everybody. God bless. Thank you for the time. God bless, thank you, Bishop.