SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin Sweeney, a podcast of the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. Join us for weekly conversations about our Catholic faith and submit questions for the Bishop today. I'm Jay Agnish. With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney. Bishop Kevin, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I'm doing well, Jay. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Doing well, thanks. Um, so we have an exciting episode today. We'll get into the introduce the guest in a little bit, but but what what's uh what's happening with you? What what uh what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Well, um we're filming on the Feast of St. John Bosco, so we wish all of our Salesian sisters and brothers and the Salesian family uh happy feast of St. John Bosco. Uh and we'll use his prayer as we begin. But um I you and I just came back from the cathedral from the um funeral for Sheriff Richard Birdnick. Um and we've received some inquiries, understandable. Um uh you know, having the podcast allows us to respond to some things, as we say, in real time. And um uh actually a week ago, um uh uh Tuesday of last week, I I got a call from Monsignor Gino Silva, our the rector of our cathedral, um, who's known Chief Birdnick and his family for many years. Chief had four has four grown children and five grandchildren, um, his wife Monica, um, and um they had just gotten the news um and Monsignor Gino had gone over to be with the family um um as they heard the news that their dad had taken his life, and um um so we pray for them. And um maybe not everyone is aware that it's really more than twenty years now that um in the past there was a uh a policy in the church that if someone had taken their life that they couldn't be buried from have a funeral mass or be buried in Catholic cemetery, and that's unfortunate. It was the best understanding that they could have at the time, um because life is sacred and uh we're given our life as a gift. Uh but as we have uh grown in developing the understanding of human person, psychology, counseling, other um um uh fields, uh, you know, um for something to be a serious sin, somebody has to be um uh have free consent of the will. And uh when someone is under some kind of terrible pressure for whatever reason, um, you know, uh a particular problem could be mental illness, could be depression, could be um uh what's going on in someone's heart or someone's mind, um whatever it might look like on the outside, we don't know. Only God knows what's going on. And so um uh, you know, yes, God is just, but God is also merciful, and and Jesus came um uh to conquer sin and death and uh for all and and to save us and to give us eternal life. And yes, we believe there's gonna be a judgment. He's Jesus was very clear about that, and we're gonna have to answer for our actions. But you know, thinking somebody the like getting to know a little bit about um Chief Bardnick and he was a Clifton police officer for many years, a knight of Columbus, uh Eucharistic minister in his parish, again, husband, father of four children, grandfather of five children, um, and just to hear people uh the the goodness, um uh a life of caring for others, trying to help others. Um, you know, does one moment of weakness um uh take away all that good? I don't we don't we we can I think be confident in God's mercy. And again, for a long time now the church has said um we we we don't know what was going on and and so what kind of if that person had freedom or not when they made that choice. So so yes, trusting in God's mercy, there can be a funeral, um funeral mass and burial in a Catholic cemetery. And uh having heard from some um people maybe, you know, whether it was 30 or more years ago and uh a family member committed suicide and they were told they couldn't have a mass or couldn't be buried, um that's the you know, the when she teaches um, you know, uh in in uh from the Holy Father and with all the bishops, that yes, there is an infallibility to church teaching, but that doesn't mean that the church is perfect, the church hasn't made mistakes. We know that um the church is made up of human beings and sometimes in with the best of intentions and prayer um and listening to the scriptures and tradition. Um there are um uh disciplines, let's say, that um um that in hindsight um were not really the best. So um we can understand someone uh if they had especially had a family member who didn't couldn't have a funeral or wasn't buried, yeah. And now to see uh uh the the chief um wake had the wake was at the cathedral and um and his funeral today. Um but I think if um any of those of us who were there today could Monsignor Gino gave a beautiful homily, a very honest homily. Um and he had spent time with the family and yes, talked about there could be anger and and certainly sadness, um, but there was also um faith, hope, and love. That's what we believe. And um and so um so we walk by faith and and and we live in hope and and we believe that his love is conquered, sin and death. So um we pray for um Chief Bernick and for his family and anyone who's lost a loved one in any way, but especially um someone who's uh anyone who's knows someone who's d taken their life. Uh and we know also, as Montine Gino mentioned, you know, it's a particular problem, whether it be mental illness or other depression or you know, that suicide rates are up. Get help. You know, there's we can um the suicide prevention lines and um the parish priests are were there to help um uh uh ask somebody for help. And um uh uh whatever problems there are, we can face them together. And and so um we would hope anyone that might feel like um they're they're they're they're thinking of um uh taking their life that they would uh know that God loves them and that there's a way out of this and and there's a better way uh for a temporary probable job. That's right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, it was it was a powerful uh funeral, and you gave the it's known as the commencement. Final commendation. Comments, commendation prayers, yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Um we're um a community where God's family as a Catholic community, as a Christian community, and as a wider community, and uh and each of those communities was represented um the Patterson community, the Clifton community, the Passei community, the state community. Um so we're grateful for all those that were there for the family. And and as often is the case when whenever we lose a loved one, um sometimes we're there for the family at the wake and the funeral, and but it's those days and weeks uh afterwards that we need to be there for one another as well. So we'll we'll make sure we do that as best we can for the Burning family.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Well, yeah, thanks for sharing that, Bishop, and also for the statement that you gave to the media, and that's available um uh online and we'll have something in the beacon next week. Um and I know that I I also received a question uh from someone outside the funeral asking about oh, the Catholic Church is doing funerals for people who um you know committed suicide. So um thanks for for that. Um All right, so do you want to open up a prayer? Can you tell us about it?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yes, we'll we'll pray the prayer that we use for the mass for St. Tom Bosco today. But as we do that, St. Tom Bosco, great saint for young people and an educator, and uh the Selegians certainly uh great educators. And uh this is Catholic Schools Week. So I was privileged uh and happy to be at Immaculate Heart of Mary Parish on Sunday uh for a Catholic Schools Week Mass at DePaul Catholic uh on Monday and St. Philip's on here in Clifton on on Tuesday, and on Friday I'll be at Holy Spirit Parish and School in in Pekwanik. So um we want to support our Catholic schools, and and we certainly this week in a particular way celebrate our Catholic schools in this Catholic School Week. So let's pray for them as we uh ask the help and intercession of St. John Bosco. We'll place ourselves in God's presence, name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Oh God, who raised up the priest St. John Bosco as a father and teacher of the young. Grant we pray that aflame with the same fire of love we may seek out souls and serve you alone. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, forever and ever. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Amen. Yeah, so um we have a very uh special guest we've been looking forward to for uh a few weeks now to have on.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So we're gonna we're gonna go to a uh the timing is great, uh because uh for the chosen fans, so we're gonna be talking about the chosen today with uh Jerry Jenkins, uh the author, uh father of Dallas Jenkins, so the creator. Um and uh tomorrow we'll be uh opening in the in theaters um the fourth season of the chosen.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

How about that for timing, yeah. So let me do a quick uh introduction for Jerry. So so Jerry B. Jenkins has written more than 200 books, including 21 New York Times uh bestsellers with sales of more than 73 million copies. He's known for biblical fiction, end times fiction, such as the Left Behind series that he wrote, um, and other genres. Jerry also assisted Billy Graham with his memoirs and has written numerous sports biographies, including those of Hank Aaron, Walter Payton, Nolan Ryan, and Orl Herschiser. Jerry became a Christian at six years old through the guidance of his mother. At 15, he rededicated his life to the to the Christian faith and later attended Moody Bible Institute. He started his writing career when he was 14 as a sports writer for a daily newspaper and published his first book at age 24. So he's got a new book out. It's entitled The Chosen, and I Will Give You Rest. It's based on the record-breaking television series created by his son, Dallas Jenkins, which is and it in its in this third offering, readers experience the emotions, personal narratives, and transformation of those who have encountered Jesus, including the disciples Simon and Simon's wife, Eden. The Chosen is the first ever TV series about Jesus and his disciples. It has been seen in every country in the world with over half a billion views. The series is on pace to be translated into 600 different languages. And I know, Bishop, you often recommend The Chosen. I know some of our parishes are doing small uh group meetings where they're watching The Chosen. And so very much looking forward to this interview. So why don't we why don't we go to that interview now? Great. Jerry, how you doing? It's Jay Agnish from Beyond the Beacon, and with me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney. Thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Well, thanks for having me. Great to be with you both. Welcome, welcome. Thanks for the time. Um so you started as a writer at at a young age, huh? Teenager.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah, I actually talked my way into a sports writing job before I was old enough to drive. My mother had to take me to the ball games and back to the newspaper office. But uh yeah, I knew I knew I wanted to be a writer. I thought I'd be a sports writer my whole life. I kind of keep still keep a hand in that, but uh obviously I've broadened out from there.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I was hoping to play for the New York Yankees. Lou Piniello was my favorite player. Uh wow. Um and he he was manager of the Cubs for a while, isn't it? That's right, yes, and the and the and the Rays and um and the and the Mariners. Um uh and in terms of your books, uh Hank Aaron, Walter Payton, Nolan Ryan, and Orl Herschaiser, right? Yeah, and uh and Brett Butler, the uh the former Dodger. Um and Cleveland the Indian, right, for a time, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah, he was with the Indians, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Uh right. Um maybe just a quick word about each one. I know it's uh the beyond the beacon for but uh I think the listeners know I'm a sports fan, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

I had uh the the first big break for me was my my fourth book was was with Hank Aaron. And uh I was such a fan, and I was so young at the time, early twenties, when I met him, I was almost speechless. I wasn't a very good interviewer because I was just sitting there gazing gazing at him. But uh he he was obviously something special and and one of the greatest players of all time. Um the fun thing about doing the pitchers' books was was watching them warm up. I remember watching Orl throw in his 92 mile an hour thinker, and I I remember thinking, I don't think I could even catch a big leaf pitch, let alone hit one. And when I was watching uh Nolan Ryan warm up in the bullpen before a game, he he said, uh, would you like to grab a bat and stand in and give me perspective? And I said, Yeah, I would, but I only brought one pair of pants. And uh the catcher said, uh, yeah, like we would allow a civilian to stand in against a hundred mile an hour fastball.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So I got out of that one. Even though I was always a Yankees fan, uh I watching um Doc Gooden and Roger Clemens, um a fastball and a killer curveball. Um, and then Ryan was later in his career, but um those power pitchers, they they're really not around as much anymore. Um, but um Hershizer, the bulldog, and that streak, was it an 88 with the Dodgers, the scoreless streak?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, and that's when I did his book, was uh the the last last month or so of 88 after the World Series. And that was my first New York Times bestseller, was uh the Earl Herschiser autobiography. Yeah, he's a he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Um uh we could talk about sports all day, but maybe um then um is it Tim LaHaye, right? The Left Beyond series. Right. Um yeah, Dr.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

LaHay had the idea for that, and uh um I remember my agent called me and asked me if I'd ever met Dr. LaHaye, and I had not met him, but I had published him in magazines and stuff like that, and and he said, Well, he's a non-fiction best-selling author with a great fiction idea, and you're a novelist with no idea, so we should get you guys together and left behind in the rest is history, is that it? It really is. I mean, it's um you know, he he he was so great, he he had the idea and he was a scholar and theologian, but he he didn't want to help write it. He was not a fiction writer, so I got the fun part, but it was it was like going to the La Haye seminary for about twenty years.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Um and I mean it's it's uh I mean it's it's so centered on the faith, right? I mean, similar to to the chosen.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Yeah, yeah, kind of ironic. Um the chosen obviously is based on the you know first century uh holy land when when Jesus was on earth and uh left behind was the other end of the spectrum. Uh when we believe the rap the rapture. So I'm I'm kind of covering both ends of the spectrum there.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Um and I guess you've learned a lot about the faith along the way from from there till now, huh?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah, I grew up in the church and uh um you know, always loved Bible stories and and the Bible and uh attended Moody Bravel Institute for a year when I got out of high school. And so yeah, we I've always been a person of faith and uh And you said your mom was uh big instrumental in your in your faith, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

From reading your Bible? Is that is that right?

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, she really was. When I was uh a kid I had rheumatic here and was in the hospital for uh a few weeks, and she had me memorized the the whole chapter of John three, and uh and then years later to see my son, you know, create the chosen and and and bring that scene to life on screen was really a moving moment for me. Um it was just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

How many children do you have?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

We have three grown sons, Dallas is the oldest, and then uh our middle son is uh um sports information director at Mid-American Nazarene University in Kansas, and uh and then our youngest son uh lives not too far from us here in uh Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Before um I uh really became a fan of the chosen uh I remember early on, I guess um I think Dallas and and Jonathan Roomy had the opportunity to meet Pope Francis, right? Is that is that happened or not?

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah, that that was really quite amazing. And and uh Dallas was impressed that the Pope had a sense of humor because uh Dallas introduced himself and and said, you know, he said, I'm a Protestant, but I want this story to be, you know, enjoyed by anybody who loves Jesus. And and the Pope says then he points to Jonathan, he says, So you you're Jesus. He points to Dallas and says, So you're Judith.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah, that's great. And uh I'm sure it's been told, but um I I don't think I've heard it. Um what got Dallas started towards the the chosen?

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Well, it really was born of failure. He had been in Hollywood about twenty years and had done several feature films and was doing pretty well. Um but he had a really big break with a a big studio and they they tested a movie, it was called The Resurrection of Gavin Stone. It was a faith-based picture. And uh it tested better than anything the studio had ever done, and they said, Boy, if this works the way it looks like it's going to, we want several movies from you over the next ten years. And it just absolutely bombed. It it just failed in the box office. And Dallas and his wife were sort of up in the night and praying and crying, and they felt led to read uh about the feeding of the 5000, so they just did that, they weren't sure why. And then uh Dallas's wife went to bed, and he was staying up trying to to to deconstruct what happened, what went wrong, and and he'd gone from being the you know, a director with a great future to really having no future, because the obviously that was the end of the deal for the for that of uh producing somehow. And um he got an email in the middle of the night from a friend of his somebody he'd never met, but he'd corresponded with, and the guy happened to be in Romania. And so Dallas was kind of wondering why are you writing to me at three o'clock in the morning? He said, Well, I'm in a different part of the world. And he said, I just you know, God told me to tell you something, and I at first refused. I I first uh disobeyed and said, I'm not gonna that would seem weird for me to tell him this. Like, he said he wouldn't let me Yeah, he said he wouldn't let me alone on it. So what he all he wants me to tell you is it's not your job to feed the five thousand, it's your job to bring the loaves and fish. God does the miracles, you just do your part. And Dallas said that just you know, from that moment on, that was back about six years ago, I think, six or seven.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

And Jonathan Roomy, I think, has a similar story, right? He felt he was just about done as an actor in in California, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah, he was broke and not finding work and uh didn't know what he was gonna do to even eat. And he said he just got on his knees and said, you know, he'd he'd been a believer, he's about turned it over, and and he said that very day a couple of checks came in the mail that kept him alive, and then Dallas called him and said Dallas had used him for a short film in his in his church uh about the the crucifixion. Oh, yeah. And uh he had actually tested him to play one of the thieves on the cross, but uh he said he he thought at the last minute, let me try you for the Jesus role, which is a much smaller role and that's short. But um he th he thought it was really a great performance. And so he he called Jonathan and you know when he got the idea for the chosen and said, Um, you know, you're ready to put the sandals back on and and uh the talk about the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

This thing's just exploded. It sure I I I was serving as a priest in Brooklyn and Queens for 23 years and got a call in uh the end of March in 2020 in the midst of the lockdown that the Holy Father was naming me as an ex-bishop of Patterson. And um I came in July of 2020, and I think that that that fall or late in the year, I got an invitation to an evangelization conference for bishops in October of 21. And I thought, well, if people are ever going to be flying again and traveling, maybe I would that's that'd be something to go to. It turns out I went to that and they had small groups. I was in this group with three other bishops, I think, and they start talking about I had, you know, seen it on Facebook, just references to it, and they started talking about having watched this show, The Chosen. This was the first season, and um how it brought the scriptures alive and how it helped them in their preaching. And I came back from the conference and I found it online and watched the first few episodes, and uh I've been a fan ever since. Uh it really brings the scriptures to life. It's um uh and looking forward now to the fourth season. But um I've been uh listening to uh to your book. This is this the third one you've written from this from the Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

I I've yeah, I've written one for each to go along with each season. Um I read a novel based on uh what you see on the screen and uh and the scripts, of course. And you know, the what you see on the screen is based on the Bible. Um and then my novels are actually based on those. So we're kind of doing it backwards. I feel like I'm sort of pressing my nose up against the glass asking Dallas if I can play too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Um I think anybody that um that enjoys the show would uh love the opportunity to you know read it even meditatively. I mean it is a reflection that you know State of Nation of Loyola talked about using um your imagination as you read and pray with the scriptures. And that's certainly I think the case here. And um again, I've I'm sure it's been talked about, but the backstories and the characters that that are brought in. Um I've always been a fan of uh Zachariah. Even two weeks ago was the gospel where he allowed you know his two sons to leave the him in the boat. Um and his character is just so lovable, you know. And Mary Magdalene and um the the Things the Ethiopian Woman. Um where did where did Jonathan come up with some of the the characters and and excuse me um Dal Dallas, where did he come up with some of the characters and backstories?

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Well, really he g that's just the his imagination and his two co-writers. They they said, you know, we know the stories from scripture, and when we show those on screen, when we show a miracle or or the sermon, we want that to really mirror what's in the Bible. We don't want to detract or or make any changes there. But we're just saying sometimes it's only two or three verses. You'll see it's a couple of verses about a miracle, and they say, What if we knew this person's name? And what if they had friends who conversed with them? What might they have said? And they said, We want to really be careful to make it plausible, but make it really realistic so people can relate to them. And he even took, you know, the disciples. We know we know all their names, but we kind of see them as stained glass window characters or statues.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Simon the Zealot, Simon the Zealot, Z, as they called him, you know, and that I think was it his brother, right, that was healed um by the well, and uh and how that character is developed.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

And and as you say, um bringing those names to life is just really yeah, and we know from scripture that that uh I mean we don't we don't see anywhere in scripture where it says that it was Simon uh the zealot's brother who was healed, but Delph is just saying, what what if it was and and how would that go?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

And then um And how did the Hero become part of the 12?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yeah, that that was really interesting, I thought, how they how they pulled that off. And they give me poetic license, you know, literary license to to even go further with that in the novels. So it's it's been great fun.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

So yeah, maybe Jerry, talk about um the how did the idea come about to write your novels um based on on the show and and maybe some of the differences between the two?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah, that that's that was the big question initially was if we do novels, will people want to read them because they've already seen what's on the screen and they they probably have read the scriptural accounts? And uh Dalf and his co-writers, you know, knowing my history of writing fiction, they said, you know, use your imagination to add more backstory, more characters, more dialogue, and especially more inner monologue. What's happening in this these characters' minds? And uh so in fact the the scene that you mentioned of the the character who's um healed at this at the Bethesda pool um on on screen, they did that without dialogue. They just showed him falling out of a tree, his father burning to help him, and uh him growing up with his brother and that type of thing. And so I just kind of uh tried to bring that to life with dialogue and and other stories. And uh people have really responded well to it. It's been really gratifying.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

I um I'm a fan of audiobooks, and I'm listening now to this, to the to the uh your current book, um, the third one. Um and uh I just listened to um Matthew's uh reunion reconciliation with his parents. And I think uh for so many uh the portrayal of Matthew, um, you know, we hear about the tax collector, but um but his portrayal um uh with his personality and uh and his interaction with the other um apostles, uh he's feeling left out at the beginning. The uh he and the women are gonna learn the Psalms. Um but it it it it brings such a humanity to the experience of the scriptures.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah, it's really um it's really stunning how they did Matthew as really a person on the spectrum and and and probably autistic. Dallas has a daughter who's autistic and she's very high functioning. She's in college now, straight A student, and her own grade and everything, but um but he was sensitive to that. And he as he's studying the the character of Matthew, he said he was good with numbers and he was good with detail. His gospel is more detailed than all the rest and has lots of really interesting facts in it. And he said he very well could have been on the spectrum. We don't know that, but he portrays him that way, and they've gotten thousands of responses from families that have kids on the spectrum and say, you know, my my child is watching this show like nothing else and just loves that character. So it's been a real ministry.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

And even the the line re in the book, and uh you remember it um in the in the show, um, when he talks about his friends, I think both to his parents and to uh is it Gaius, the Roman centurion who used to be his bodyguard, I guess. Uh, you have friends? Um and Matthew kind of saying, Yeah, I I do have friends, you know. Um That's right.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

It's uh Yeah, that's right. And the guy who plays Gaius, his name is Kirk B. R. Woller, and uh he's an old friend of Dallas's and has been in every movie that Dallas has ever made. And uh in fact he's got one coming up, the the best Christmas pageant ever, it'll be out for next next Christmas. And uh he's in that one too, but he's a great actor.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

I'm sure there's um it's gonna be great. Uh it's I guess is it um tomorrow or that uh the February 1st, right? The fourth season comes out in theaters.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yeah, my wife are gonna go to the first showing here in uh Colorado Springs. We can't wait ourselves. We we've gotten some sneak previews, but it'll be fun to see it on the big screen.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I can't wait. I can't wait. Why do you think it's done so well, the the the chosen, Jerry?

SPEAKER_02 28:35

I really think it's the idea of of how they've made these characters so relatable. When when we see the disciples, rather than I mean, we do it, you know, nowadays we we do revere them as apostles and and great giants of the faith, but scripture is clear that they were petty, they could be annoying, they could be jealous, they could be ambitious, and that's like us, and we can identify with those kind of guys. So Dallas made them you know, sort of blue-collar workers, they're fishermen, you know, that's scripture's clear about that. And uh and when it talks about that they were asking for the for to be to sit on Jesus' right and left hand in the kingdom, that's the kind of stuff we would do, you know, and so people are watching this and saying, hey, these are are real people. And and Jesus, what he's often hard to identify with in movies or TV shows because he's perfect. So Dallas gives him a sense of humor and this sense of camaraderie with his friends that really makes him relatable too.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Um and his relationship with Mary, you know, um with his mother. Um and uh, you know that we hear one line in the scriptures in some sense, you know, Peter's mother-in-law, and we know that Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law. Well, to get to know Eden, right? Um, and to see the relationship with Peter and Eden as husband and wife accepting Peter's call, uh the relationship between Jesus and Eden, saying Jesus saying to Eden, you saw it in him first. Um and uh and then I guess it was the end of the third season where um no spoiler, it's a spoiler for those who haven't seen it, but um, you know, that she had a miscarriage. Um and and to relate that with the scene of walking on the water, I mean, wow. And and but the the that you say about it being relatable, even you know, the the married the married couple and the relationship between Peter and Eden, uh it it brings it so much to life.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, and that's a perfect example of in scripture. The only way we even know that Peter is married is because he had a mother-in-law. That's all we know about that. We don't know his wife's name, we don't know about that relationship. And so those writers to to invent that scene in that story, um, you know, it's not it's not biblical, but it's it's plausible and it brings the whole thing to life. I just love that part of it.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Right. Uh when they came back from being sent out two by two, and uh actually she, I guess, probably had just had the miscarriage and wanted to tell Peter. And I um I remember watching it, you know, really struggling to that um uh Peter, the great scene where Peter and and and Gaius right are trying to fix the um the uh the the sewage problem in in the town, and uh uh Gaius gives Peter some marriage advice and it doesn't go well. But eventually they they work it out and and and they're able to you know share that grief of of losing a child and um um and and and the way that Jesus ministers to them, um not heavy-handed, but being there and and understanding what they're going through is just um again really a beautiful portrayal.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, I find that I you know I have to I watch I get to watch these you know over and over to do to do the books, and I find, I mean, I've always thought that everything my son did was brilliant. This time I was right. And uh but uh but in getting to watch these so many times, I find that I'm moved by every scene every time. I never get tired of them, and they always move me emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Right, right. And Jerry, so you you taught your son everything he knows, right? Well, I'll be happy to take all the credit. But you um I I was looking around on your website, and you you do you do some training for writing workshops and and and coaching? Or can you get get into that?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah, I have about I have about 2,000 online writing students and uh at jerryjenkins got at jerryjenkins.com and uh it's everything from free daily tips and blogs and things like that up to courses that you can buy and and participate in. But I find that very gratifying. I feel obligated to to pay it forward. I've had a dream career.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

And uh so I I'm really enjoying that part of it too. What can you share with us a nugget? Like what what is something that you might um share with uh some insight or wisdom with a with an aspiring uh new author or someone who wants to wants to write things for a living?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Right. One of the things I try I try to tell people, and it and it does kind of bring them up short, is they say, Well, I've always wanted to write a book, and so I want to I want to learn to be a writer. And I say, you know, a book is not where you start. A book is where you arrive. So you need to start with short things. Write something for your church newsletter, write something for a local paper, try to sell articles to magazines or short stories, learn to be edited, learn to be critiqued, learn the business, and then your your time will come when you're ready, when you've got a good idea for a for a novel or or for a nonfiction book, um, then that's the time to to to become a an author.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

That's great advice. For you for you, Jerry, when so it was age twenty-four you wrote your first novel. When do you feel like you you you hit the ground running or hit your stride as far as uh writing in a in a way that you were satisfied with or felt like I'm still hoping to get there.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, I've actually I've actually been a um a full-time uh I've been a published author for 50 years now. And uh I still feel like I learned something new every day. That's another thing that's surprising to students. They say, When did you know you loved writing? And I say, you know what? I love everything about writing except the writing. I I love being an author, I love being known as an author, I love having written, I love having succeeded, I love the spoils that come from it, I love the ministry of it. But writing, if you do it correctly, is grueling every time, even now. I feel like I compare it to being a marathon runner. Ask a marathon runner at the 20-mile mark if they don't just love running, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Um maybe I'll just say a word about um your experience of the faith community. I guess um I'm thinking that the evangelical community um would have embraced the um the left behind books. Um I'm not sure of that, but um maybe the experience of the faith community in uh you know what became uh such a uh a popular series, and then maybe transitioning from there to some of the reactions or responses you've heard from the faith community in terms of um uh both the show and and and now the books uh of the chosen.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah, that's been really bizarre when you think about it, to have lightning sort of strike the same family uh twice within a generation. I mean, I was in my mid-40s when Left Behind came out, and it was just overwhelming. I mean, uh I think at one point they were saying that one in eight people in the United States alone had had read Left Behind. And so I had to really get used to that um that sort of overwhelming success and and keep the focus on the the ministry and the you know the task. And then, you know, basically 28 years later or so, Dallas, in his mid-40s now, has this hit and it's it's just skyrocketed. So I've been able to tell him from advice I got from Dr. Lahaye, too, that you need to let the phenomenon take care of itself and stick to the knitting because um you know you didn't write this to to to be a a success or to be a bestseller or to to have you know these means come to you. Um you had a purpose, you had a reason, you had a why. And concentrate on that and and let you know so that was sort of my introduction to what Dallas is going through. You know, it's not our job to do the miracle. Our job is to do our job. And and and bring bring our loaves and fish, and God does the rest.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

And um you know, not uh I don't really want to get political, but um I do um care for and love our country, and you know, we certainly have challenges at the moment, but you know that maybe some don't realize the the the the deep tradition of faith that has been so much a part of our history and and and and how much we still are a country of faith, right? And people um I think are are are looking to um you know bring that faith into the the public square, but also maybe uh even more so communities and um uh can you say a word about that in terms of maybe some of your experience of the the church of faith communities and reactions to both either um left behind or or the chosen?

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah, I think this has come to light, especially the last few years, with all the sort of lunacy we see out there in society, of the things that are accepted or even called good and that we know are not. Um the the fine line we have to draw is um we're supposed to love everybody, even people we are diametrically opposed to, you know, philosophically or politically or whatever. And somehow the church has gotten this reputation of being uh hateful toward people who are suffering. And and so you know, our our goal is to say, look, we want to love people and yet still be firm in our beliefs and our biblical stance on things, and it's hard, um, because you know you're called a bigot or a hater if you say anything that that goes against what people are saying. And uh, and as I say, uh a lot of it is just is just lunacy. And I I'm I'm not sure there's a solution for it this side of heaven, but um our goal is to see people get closer to Jesus, learn more about him, love him more, come back to their faith, back to the Bible. Um, I do find there's a lot more cooperation between the different stripes of Christianity. Uh one of one of my wife's and my best friends and a almost daily correspondent is a Carmelite nun from England. Uh she she became a fan of the chosen and and of uh left behind. And we correspond all the time, and there's so many things we agree on. We don't worry about the distinctives that we might not totally agree on. We love Jesus, and he said, if you're not for me, you're against me. And he also said, if you're not against me, you're for me. And certainly if somebody's of a different stripe, we we could we could look at the differences and argue about them, but that doesn't mean they're not for Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

And and maybe the one of the many things that I love about the show between Dallas and Jonathan and the writers in the cast, the the portrayal of Jesus of um sharing the truth in love, you know. Um saying um seeing him struggle sometimes, as the scriptures tell us, you know, he gets frustrated, whether it be with the friars and scribes and Pharisees or the apostles when they're failing to get what he's trying to lead them towards in terms of you know seeing the presence of God in each person, no matter their circumstances, no matter um how obstinate they may be at the moment, or that he that how that comes out is just so Yeah, and that's one of the hallmarks of this next season.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

You're gonna see Jesus starting to really speak out against the Pharisees and and says, Woe to you, you know, and uh and you're straining at nets and that type of thing. It's it's gonna be really powerful. This this is gonna be a really moving season.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

So what's next for you, Jerry? Well, I have finished the novel for season four, and that'll be out later this year, and uh so I'm waiting for the scripts now for for season five, and so that'll be the next thing on that place.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Oh, is it uh the uh is it seven seasons? Is that the whole plan? Right, it's gonna be seven seasons.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

So uh the at the end of season four, uh it will will be just about the beginning of Holy Week, and so I think season five will be will we'll cover all of Holy Week, and then season six, they've they've already announced that season six is the crucifixion, season seven is the resurrection, so it's gonna be really dramatic.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Well, and um that season four is coming out uh two weeks before Lent, and you know, a few at a time uh for us. Um, you know, I think uh it's it's good timing, and uh I'm sure it's gonna help a lot of people um to be closer to the Lord in prayer and and be closer to the word of God and in that you know reflection on the scriptures. So please um uh on behalf of one from humble bishop from uh New Jersey, please tell uh Dallas um how grateful we are um for um for all that they're doing and and yourself as well, um, as a dad, as a dad and and as a writer.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

I'll definitely tell him and uh and that is our prayer that this this would really bring people closer to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

So so much so appreciate you having me on. Well, thank you very much for your time.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Thanks so much, Jerry. Thank you. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

We'll be in touch. God bless you. God bless. Thanks. Take care. Bye. All right. Well, that was a fun interview, Bishop. What do you think? Thank you, Jay. Thanks for setting that up and uh uh really a pleasure. Um we could have talked to him for a lot longer whether on many topics, but um uh again, the Lord works in mysterious ways and you know, faith and family, and to see a dad and a son um, you know, use the talents God has given them as um um as he said uh to bring the loaves and the fishes and allow the Lord to work a miracle and and uh and they've certainly had um as as he said uh lightning strikes twice. Uh amazing, amazing. But um grateful grateful for his time.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah. Well good. All right. So um what else, what what are you looking forward to in in the days ahead?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

So um oh glad you mentioned I almost forgot. Uh um so um this coming Friday I'll be, as I said, at Holy Spirit uh paquanic for a school visit for Catholic Schools Week. And uh this coming Sunday in the morning, uh as we celebrate our solesions today, uh um we well this the third Friday, excuse me, getting my days here. Friday the second, also in the evening, we're gonna have a Project Andrew in Sparta. So um uh praying for vocations and meeting with some young men might be open to the priesthood. And uh the third, uh the second, the feast of the presentation of the Lord, um, Candlemass Day, sometimes called Candelaria in Spanish. Um, and um the third, we can get our both pressed as my coffee's getting a little bit better uh on the Feast of St. Plays. And then the fourth um World Day of Prayer for Consecrated Life, and we're having a mass at the cathedral, I believe 1030 um on Sunday the fourth. Uh so we'll invite our women and men religious uh in consecrated life to come and be represented and we join with them in prayer and with the universal church in in giving thanks for those living um the vows of consecrated life. Um so um and then in the afternoon on Sunday, um we're gonna have our second annual um ecumenical prayer service for Black History Month. And again, Monsignor Gino at the Cathedral and others, Father Ben Williams. Uh we've been meeting with a group of um pastors, African American pastors from the city of Patterson, many churches um in the in the city of Patterson, and we're gonna come together and the theme um of this year's um Black History Month, I believe, is uh has to do with art, and we're gonna there's gonna be a guest preacher who's gonna speak on uh the meaning of of music in in the African American community, black community and the their experience uh uh uh here in the in the United States. And so um come down on the cathed uh to the cathedral. I believe it's four o'clock on um Sunday afternoon, um, the uh ecumenical service for Black History Month.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah, looking forward to that. All right.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Well and then uh two weeks next we can talk about uh the Chiefs and 49ers and stuff. Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Who are you rooting for?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Uh I I was a 49ers fan, but I look like Patrick Mahomes and Coach Andy Reid. Uh so um it should be a good game. Uh I feel bad for the Lions. Yeah. They were they had it, they seem to be they had it in the first half. And but um so it should be a good game, a rematch, I think, from four years ago.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

All right, Bishop. Well, thanks for another great episode. And thank you all for spending time with us. Get to know us a little better by following Beyond the Beacon on Facebook or Instagram. I hope you'll join us for the next episode. And don't forget to subscribe, comment, and leave a positive rating. If you're watching on Bishop Kevin Sweetie's YouTube channel, be sure to like, subscribe, and ring the bell for notifications. Email questions and podcast topic ideas for the bishop to beyond at patterstondioces.org. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Thanks, God bless you. Take care.